When real just isnt real enough

aaronv2 · Post by **aaronv2** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:14 am

I thaught this was interesting...

redkorn · Post by **redkorn** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:46 pm

All girls in magazine do that, it can cost thousands upon thousands to have that done, back in High School a girl paid a company 10,000 to do that for her so she could be on a front cover of a magazine. I would have ony charged her 3000 if she came to me, lol

OutcastJiob · Post by **OutcastJiob** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:37 pm

$10,000 for photo retouching? It's basic stuff, really. Amazing there's that much money in it. I might need to go into business. . . .

Lame that we expect women to look so 'perfect,' though. Plastic surgery and photoshop--eh, it's fake. That's a completely different issue though. The video was impressive anyway, though I'd imagine it'd be most impressive to someone who's never done retouching.

aaronv2 · Post by **aaronv2** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:14 am

retouching is "simple really" ? gimme a break.

rhys · Post by **rhys** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:28 am

$10,000 for photo retouching? It's basic stuff, really.

Yeah i agree, its not that hard. It's basicaly just levels, colors, layers, clone-brush and plugin after plugin. It takes a little while but its not that hard. Its normally the edges of a pic that annoys me. The demon kid looks wicked.

aaronv2 · Post by **aaronv2** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 11:04 am

your all saying its easy and over priced id like to see you retouch this photo... and show me your results

Theshapecool · Post by **Theshapecool** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:12 pm

Retouching is very simple, alot of the stuff you see on magazines are all about hiding blotches and spots. its simple, sometimes you take a tiny part of the face that is spot free and cover the spot with it, sometimes its more difficult, like hiding small hairs by cloning other sections. alot of it you can do very easily on photoshop, I often retouch my photo's because I have a weak muscle in my left eyelid and I look like popeye, No good for a headshot really, or maybe just a persona thing??? who knows, but yeah, retouching is simple, but like everything, depends on the job. of course people who charge thousands for it are gonna have you believe its hard!

aaronv2 · Post by **aaronv2** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:29 pm

its not simple you people are morons... its more than adjusting colors and using a clone stamp.
your kidding yourself if you think its only color changes and blemish removal.

http://homepage.mac.com/gapodaca/digital/digital.html

head over to this guys website and look at his gallery and his comparisons and rethink what you have said because i KNOW that you dont have the skill to do anything to the caliber of what your talking about. There is restructuring and mirroring the head making sure proportions are correct. you have to generate layers upon layers of adjustment masks to alter tones and keep detail. you got no idea what your on about. otherwise proove me wrong.

Theshapecool · Post by **Theshapecool** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:43 pm

wow, calm down mate!
You gotto remember that retouching is hard on diffrent levels. no one is a 'moron' if they think its simple. Its easy when you know how, just like anything else really. you have to do different things for diffrent results. that example on the site is good but its a little extreme. in the main retouching is changing little things like spots, blemishes and stuff, thats more like a re-imaging! I think that just because YOU think its hard, it dosent make someone else a moron if they find it simple. Granted i have never had to do something that extreme, but its an art, and all art becomes simple with time. I studied graphic art and have had to do alot of stuff like that. I think you should either calm down, take a chill pill or simply grow up before posting about something. as for saying that you KNOW all of us dont know how or cant produce something of that calibre? I could if I had to probably. But Its not my scene, so who cares? your getting all ancy about this, its more amusing than educating! just take it easy pal, LOL!

aaronv2 · Post by **aaronv2** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:12 am

lol wtf? im talking about professionalism here not some kid removing a mole adjusting levels and saying its easy... anyone who thinks that it is that easy IS a moron so i stand by that comment. Sure its easy when you know how but its still HARD arduous work. Not like what your talking about 'retouching' your home photos. so i stand by that statement too.

Also i find alot of what you say moronic.
"all art becomes simple with time" a wiiiide assumption just like saying retouching is easy. thats another wiiiide assumption.
you studied graphic art and you COULD if you HAD to... PROBABLY. so who cares? i just thaught it was funny you talk like someone from a government. I may possibly might could maybe.

anyway since you studied graphic art and you seem to know everything and just how easy it is we will take your word for it and now there may be a huge influx of retouchers... because its so easy and anyone can do it right?

Theshapecool · Post by **Theshapecool** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:49 pm

Oh Jeeeeze, this guy just dosent get it does he??? I have done professional re-touching. Yes I have retouched my own home photos but thats not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about models for magazine covers. taking away like 10 years of ageing. how can you say that all art dosent become easy with time?? are you stupid?? do you not find that once you keep going with something it becomes easy because of practice, what planet are you from???. everything is an art, but your practice and you learn how and you get good. its still long tiresome work but you know what your doing. what cant you understand about that. Everyone here said re-touching is simple and there right, to an extent, I see where your coming from. I dont know everything about graphic design at all, but this is one of the biggest studies we did and one of the few, along with soft drink advertising, that I decided totake out of college and do in my spare time. if someone gives you a picture of a woman who has wrinkles and an offside jaw, you look at it and say 'how the hell am I supposed to make these worthy of a magazine cover, then when someone teaches you how and you LEARN your like 'oh I see now!' it dosent make it less work, but its easyer when you know what your doing. whats hard to understand about that?

Theshapecool · Post by **Theshapecool** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:11 pm

Ok well you asked for it, I quickly wipped up these things, and they arent great as It was rushed, but just to show you that its not hard when you know how:

aaronv2 · Post by **aaronv2** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:58 pm

see what i mean you over did it... go look at that guys website notice how good his retouching is while keeping the subtleties of age lines its something that cant be rushed like i said. its more than levels adjustments and removing wrinkles. I mean i can see you reworked the cheek and neck area but it just isnt enough. the worry line on her lip should face the other way. her nose looks gross as hell and theres no life in the eyes.. im talking subtlety a fine art not a quick glamour filter. if i wanted that i would have vaselined the lens homer simpson style.

and once again you misread what i wrote... if you look carefully i actually agreed with you. I said it gets easier when you know how. but the WORK is HARD. you can't just flip flop your way through something like this. You have prooved that and justified a professional retouchers price.

Just learn to appreciate the effort involved before you judge how easy a task is because your lack of effort will no doubt show in your work.
class dismissed <--- Half Baked Reference

Theshapecool · Post by **Theshapecool** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 4:09 pm

Ok well I kind of agreed with you too, but that was a rushed job, but you gotto remember something, every art director wants something diffrent, mine is over the top because if you see some of them, they barely resemble the origanals! but I see where your going with it, I just think that calling us morons because we said it was simple was a little harsh!

Lawriejaffa · Post by **Lawriejaffa** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 6:04 pm

Well no offence but i definately think 10k $ is a joke for photo retouching (thought it depends how many images she got done. - and other issues as well relating to the final graphic, and the level of detail they were working on etc.

Photo retouching is a skilled technique, but one I believe very much within the skillset of the graphic artist in general, and its something that I've seen done well by several graphic artist students.

I don't think its a skill set that i would describe as an incredible artform, i think the high prices charged by some companies for this service, is due more to their over-heads than the 'incredible' skill required to do it.

I'm not suggesting its easy, but no harder than other photo-manipulation skills that are often required in the commercial field.

Lawriejaffa · Post by **Lawriejaffa** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 6:46 pm

Well, just stuck up a wee 30min job i did, obviously its pointless to expect that it can really show that photo retouching is 'easy' (i wouldnt call it that!) lol but what the heck, thought
i'd have a go, incidentally im presuming u shouldnt remove the hair over her forehead (since presumably our photographer intended her to have it like that lol or he could have had it brushed back!

EDIT, lol and never leave any reflection on the end of her nose like i did haha

bloodymess · Post by **bloodymess** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:10 pm

as with lawriejaffa, it took me about 30 minutes. I did it with Paint Shop Pro instead of photoshop, I don't know if it has any impact on the final result.

and even though I'm far from professional, and it is not so easy, 10 000 is overpriced. even 1000 would be quite pricey, in my opinion. when the retouching cost more than the camera that took the picture, imo, there's a problem somewhere.

OutcastJiob · Post by **OutcastJiob** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:15 pm

I don't feel obligated to "prove" that it's easy. Or rather, there's no way I'm gonna sit and look at that picture for the time it would take to correct it as I've no desire to stare at an old woman's face for that long. So I grabbed an image that's a bit easier on the eyes from the site you linked to and retouched that (incidentally, I've seen that guy's site before, and the word that came to mind was "plastic" when I saw his retouch of this particular girl).

So, the original:

My retouch:

So much 'retouching' just isn't needed. This girl, for example. She doesn't really NEED any photoshop cosmetic surgery. She's not ugly. But I'm gonna stop now before I get off on a rant about superficial society.

Anyway. Had I wanted to spend more than thirty minutes on this, I could have produced more "professional" results, but I think my point is made. Anyone who knows how to use photoshop can produce quality retouches. Maybe not up the advertising industry's standards, but decent quality nonetheless. Or I'm wrong and my retouch sucked

pdj · Post by **pdj** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:12 am

Here's my version of the girl...

Ok so its not mine rather the gentlemen who does great photoshoping. Look, the man is great at what he does. Whether you like or dislike the end product is a different story but we can all agree he has talent which does take hours of hard work. I think the argument of 'she looks too plastic' has no merit. He didn't touch up (!) your sister, he touched up a female model for an advertisement therefore the company demands a generic looking hottie! From what Ive read seems like everyone thinks its 'too easy' maybe thats why so many films by 'indi makers' suck!

ALove · Post by **ALove** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:43 am

My half hour attempt, notice my substandard glasses.

Wanted to keep the old person look so i left in a bit of the wrinkles. Didn't have an art director telling me what he wanted changed so I did a quick general retouch. The best way to view my changes is to put it in photoshop over the original file, and toggle between.

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:36 pm

Lawriejaffa wrote:Well no offence but i definately think 10k $ is a joke for photo retouching (thought it depends how many images she got done. - and other issues as well relating to the final graphic, and the level of detail they were working on etc.

Photo retouching is a skilled technique, but one I believe very much within the skillset of the graphic artist in general, and its something that I've seen done well by several graphic artist students.

I don't think its a skill set that i would describe as an incredible artform, i think the high prices charged by some companies for this service, is due more to their over-heads than the 'incredible' skill required to do it.

I'm not suggesting its easy, but no harder than other photo-manipulation skills that are often required in the commercial field.

Well, I do 3d animation as a consultant. The guys in Hollywood charge $50,000 for a job I can do in a weekend.

The amount of money you pay does not reflect the difficulty of the task.

Dean · Post by **Dean** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:42 pm

Hi, i'm new to matt hawkins and i was following a tutorial on gun shooting, the one with the fire mozzles at the end of pistols, anyway i followed the tutorial and it says 'Right-click the image (meaning mozzle image) then click 'Video Options' PROBLEM.... theres is no 'Video Options', so i can't get to transparency, ANYONE HELP ??? :scratchchin:

Jperson · Post by **Jperson** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:47 pm

Did you mean to post a new topic?

Jimbobsquarepants · Post by **Jimbobsquarepants** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:49 pm

wtf? wrong thread mate.

my attempt. sory about the jpeglike quality, its a bad quality jpeg.

Jimbobsquarepants · Post by **Jimbobsquarepants** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:19 pm

what do you think?

MattHawkins Online - Film Making Forum

When real just isnt real enough

When real just isnt real enough

RE: When real just isnt real enough

RE: When real just isnt real enough