fight scene (dam it i hate calling them that)

Zac · Post by **Zac** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:42 am

hi, this is that other one me and rhys both mentioned, its not exactly wat you'd call a fight scene but just have a look at the cuts and stuff. if you think its cr** i dont care and djicko (?) i know, hahahaha.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 7885&hl=en

rhys · Post by **rhys** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:20 am

Yeah it was alright, didnt turn out how i wanted at all, it was alright though. At leasted u can tell whats goin on. The fight wasnt as brawly as i hoped/wanted, but its a little hard when u have 1 hour to film it in and are extremely tired and bored.

Djokicko · Post by **Djokicko** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 3:30 pm

Ok this one is little better but you still need to work on you editing try taking the same scene (example: the bad guy claming up the stairs) and shoot it with couple different angels then just cut them all up edit them in whatever program your useing.In fight scenes everything needs to snap really fast so that who ever is watching can get really into it.
I didn’t like how the bad guy thru that guy with the paper in his pocket that looked bad and the block kind of sucked two but the punching was good with nice sound effects. Also try using smaller muzzle flashes they where two big(in size) ,so they just didn’t look real, also when you put muzzle flashes try putting some brightness on that clip at same time the muzzle flash is being seen (you know like a camera blic if a spelled it right).That makes the muzzle flash look better or cooler.
Try getting one more friend to help you out at least he can carry the camera.Also make a stedycam here is a link to this one that is realy cheap and easy to make.
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~johnny/steadycam/

UFProductions · Post by **UFProductions** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:50 pm

I have three tips:
1.) Faster
2.) Faster
3.) Bloody FASTER!!!

The cuts are just way to slow, you are shooting a fight scene, the pace should match the subject. If your actions (punches, climbing, running etc...) cannot be faster (not an insult, it's not easy to stage fight) then you must compensate with faster paced editing and to do so you must shoot from many different angles, which brings me to my second point. The camera angles are just not creative enough. It seems that every shot is a head-level, medium shot with the subject perfectly centred, essentially; it looks like a home movie. Try putting the camera where you wouldn't expect it to be. One of the easiest ways to up the professionalism of a project is to put the camera in places where an amateur project shouldn't be able to (IE: climb tree's for birds eye shots, get inside of things, etc... just get creative with camera positioning).

DEDFX · Post by **DEDFX** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 6:29 pm

It was good up to 28 seconds. The smaller kid doesn't punch back which is nonbeleivable then he pulls out a gun (a child) and shoots at Rhys and misses which is unbeleivable. The rhys climbs up a treefort and the kid doesn't shoot him anymore?

rhys · Post by **rhys** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:30 am

Yes i agree with that DEDFX, the way it was thought out didnt match the movie at all. It was supposed to be like him at the door and like all angry at him, grabs him by the throught and takes him around the corner, away from his family and away from sight. Then he was supposed to yell at him to give him the info he wants, but the guy acts like he doesnt then tries to walk off, then gets flipped to the ground. Then he was supposed to get up, have his first punch blocked before he gave a jab to my mouth. Then i was supposed to be like "that f**kin hurt" then hit him a few times till he spits out blood like i did then i grab him and throw him up against the wall and be like "WHERE IS IT?!" then i look down, grab it,, whack him in the face and walk off. Before he grabs out his gun fires at me, i jump up and out of sight as he follows me up into the treehouse. I go on the outside of it and he tries to shoot at me, i get it away from him, we have a little hand to hand combat again and then i kick him in the leg, and he falls down and is killed. Then i go down, take his guns off the dead guy and be like "I respect you, your family shouldnt find your dead, mutilated body with there handguns" then i walk away and throw them in a nearby recycling box. Then you see me walk about for like 3 seconds as it fades to black.
Half of that stuff couldnt be done because zacs camera has a small battery time and he only has one (battery). And i wasnt alowed to swear at him. He got home at like 3:30 and it gets dark in just over an hour. The fight ontop of the treehouse couldnt be done because it was unsafe and scary as hell. The fall didnt look real because he couldnt jump from the woodplanks of the treehouse because it was too high and unsafe, and we forgot to move it out of frame so we could mask the trampoline out. We couldnt get the angles we wanted. Seriously no offence, but zacs acting isnt 100% (aka couldnt fake cry, act scared/sad). And as i said we couldnt do the amount of things because we only had the 2 days to film it in, and in those days we had an hour. We couldnt run on the first layer of the treehouse because we were too tall (its like going into the McDonalds playgrounds at 16 and trying to stand).
Thank you Djokicko for your advice. But we only had us 2 and the tripod, so we couldnt do any awesome camera movements/placements.
As i said in my earlier post, it didnt turn out how i wanted and it will not be used for anything.
Can any one help with the troubles we fell into?

DEDFX · Post by **DEDFX** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:38 am

Then use the viewfinder...

rhys · Post by **rhys** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:43 am

Whats a viewfinder?

Zac · Post by **Zac** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:52 am

the thing you look through on the camera and then it shows you wa the cameras seeing. but we dont use that, we use the little flip out screen (the view from the view finder is f*** tiny).

Djokicko wrote:Ok this one is little better but you still need to work on you editing try taking the same scene (example: the bad guy claming up the stairs) and shoot it with couple different angels then just cut them all up edit them in whatever program your useing.In fight scenes everything needs to snap really fast so that who ever is watching can get really into it.

that is EXACTLY what we did, on that first part where rhys went up the stairs, we had about another 4-5 angles that we didnt use. same for most other shots.

DEDFX wrote: The smaller kid doesn't punch back which is nonbeleivable then he pulls out a gun (a child) and shoots at Rhys and misses which is unbeleivable. The rhys climbs up a treefort and the kid doesn't shoot him anymore?

uh, thats no more belivable than rhys pulling out a gun then. that "child" is me, and i am older than rhys by a couple of months, yeh im fuc*ing short get over it.

GUESS WAT RHYS! WE'RE CHILDREN!
well cya, im flying back to never never land.

Vor · Post by **Vor** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:46 am

silly child...

JackBauerII · Post by **JackBauerII** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:00 am

I love how you knock on the door before strangling him. Oh yeah, the movie was a waste of my time, and, perhaps, yours. It could be better spent learning how to edit.

rhys · Post by **rhys** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:25 am

Well we could obviously learn how to edit alot better if you teached (thats not a word, i dont think) us. What the hell were you implying, "and Rhys guess what, we're kids"... No s**t, doesnt mean u have to suck too much though.
Why are we using the veiw finder? To see whats going on? We have LCD, doesnt everyone.
UFProductions: Half of the time i make a fast pased movie, you all yell at me for it not having any flow, and when it does have flow, you yell at me for some other freakin homosexual reason.
ITS HARD TO LEARN WITHOUT A TEACHER, face it people, it is. You arent exactly helping us, your just giving us examples. Then you go over to some other guy, who sucks completely and you give him credit for having shaky footage that doesnt make any sence. I DO NOT UNDERSTAND YOU!

Jimbobsquarepants · Post by **Jimbobsquarepants** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:06 am

ha! youve been told! no but seriously, the punches were good, but i would have changed it so you didnt have to go up the treehouse.

ALove · Post by **ALove** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:20 am

rhys wrote:Well we could obviously learn how to edit alot better if you teached (thats not a word, i dont think) us. What the hell were you implying, "and Rhys guess what, we're kids"... No s**t, doesnt mean u have to suck too much though.
Why are we using the veiw finder? To see whats going on? We have LCD, doesnt everyone.
UFProductions: Half of the time i make a fast pased movie, you all yell at me for it not having any flow, and when it does have flow, you yell at me for some other freakin homosexual reason.
ITS HARD TO LEARN WITHOUT A TEACHER, face it people, it is. You arent exactly helping us, your just giving us examples. Then you go over to some other guy, who sucks completely and you give him credit for having shaky footage that doesnt make any sence. I DO NOT UNDERSTAND YOU!

I think most of us managed to learn from watching movies, google, and maybe our school's video teacher.

rhys · Post by **rhys** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:41 am

Thank you for your replies.
Alove: Our schools movies suck ringworm, honestly there was a movie that got into our school festival thing, this is all it was:
A guy miming a rock song. Nothin special at all, just a guy behind a couch pretending that hes singing. No angles, No effects, freaking nothing, just a guy miming.
It made me want to spew, but then i remember that i could clearly get high credit for what i can do, although it may suck to u guys.

JackBauerII · Post by **JackBauerII** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:07 pm

Rhys, aren't you noticing a pattern in your threads that at some point, you have to respond to the criticisms of like five people? hmmm......

Djokicko · Post by **Djokicko** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:34 pm

You have to have a feeling also that’s something no one can teach you. Also your movies are too sterile they look if you just slap them on again you need that felling.

Here is a tip before you start ,look at the place your going to shoot example your backyard, now stand at place where the fight is goanna take place, look around to find places where you can put the camera (on the three ,on the roof of the house ,on the ground ,in the bushes,...).After you take a look ,then you and your friends come up with the nice coreografy,nice punches and kicks(if your not in the shape don’t try anything with your legs that will look stupid),then repeat them over and over and over until it becomes like a normal thing(also get two of your friends to fight you be the director so you can hold the cam).Now tell your fighters to fight and you shoot form the places you come up with earlyer,also don’t just put the tripod and the cam on it, try experimenting with the camera in your hands follow your actors as they fight move from side to side lay on the ground and shoot them. Now as I sead tell your fighters to fight you shoot from all the places you came up, as you change the please of the camera (example first your shooting from the tree now move in the bush) make your actors repeat the fight again, do this for all the places you came up with.

Now editing:
Transfer all the clip on your pc and start watching them so you can make a pic in your mind how it will look, now open you editing program and import all the clips you selected and start editing, also be creative you can repeat the same punch just from the different angles and then the last one can be a close up and a slow-mou then he falls down and K.O.

Try taking time on your movies don’t do this only when your bored, if you like making movies put more passion in it. Don’t make a fight scene in only an hour take your time do it during the weekends.

Here is the link for some tips how to make homemade kung-fu movies I hope this helps:
http://www.mightycoach.com/articles/specialeffects/

Mr.Anderson · Post by **Mr.Anderson** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:05 pm

Best advice I have for you Rhys....write some scripts. I know these fights are just tests or experiments. But youve been doing those for awhile now, you must have learned something by filming these? Well, put it to use. Write a movie with focus on story and acting. And if you want a challenge...make a movie Rhys......that has NO choreographed fights, maybe even one that doesnt have fights at all. Just try really putting all that energy into a script, i think it would pay off.

And even if all of us here dont like it, it will still be a learning experience for you. Youd really get something out of it.

SgtPadrino · Post by **SgtPadrino** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:13 pm

It made me want to spew, but then i remember that i could clearly get high credit for what i can do, although it may suck to u guys.

Well yeah, because it's the same thing over and over. Bad angles of middle school kids stumbling through badly choreographed fight scenes.

Once again, get a little creative with your camera work. Like UFproductions said, it just looks like some kid's amateur home movie. Something that would help to make the whole thing work better is to cut on motion - the kid swings, cut to another shot of the other kid getting hit, and another shot of him falling down. Take more time on your camera angles. When the kid gets pushed against the house, it would have looked better to place the camera looking down the length of the wall, zoomed in for a shallower depth of field, panning slowly from one character to the other. Don't keep the camera focused on the gun too long, hell don't keep it focused on any one angle in your fight scenes for too long, because it just calls that much more attention to how fake it is. With the gunshot, you should have cut to the next shot the very next frame after the gun was fired, and make sure your actor reacts to the fact that he's getting shot at, as well as upping the opacity on the muzzle flash image to make it look more realistic. When you see the kid climbing up the treehouse, get some shots of the other kid running to get a better angle on him, or to give chase, something that actually explains why he's not just shooting the bastard.

Or just come up with some new ideas already. But, if you're hell-bent on doing nothing but fights, just experiment for crying out loud. Come up with some blood effects, put the camera in interesting places, come up with faster cuts and new music, just do something to improve these things.

One of our dicking-around-with-guns fight movies I made a while back - who knows, you might get an idea or two:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh5QDhaUtog

rhys · Post by **rhys** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:18 am

That was alright... I dont know how to explain but it wasnt awsome. Did you use blanks?

chrisgreen · Post by **chrisgreen** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:12 am

I think Padrino's film is a perfect example of containing all the essencial pieces which your films lacks Rhys. Out of all the camera angle's and different shot types how many would be considered "normal" shots? I think i counted 1 or 2 and it contained a lot of shots. There were one or two shots which were focused on the guns, but in an abstract way, they weren't centeredand they were quick (again, faster faster faster). One or two of the shots were out of focus to, but not because the camera man was mashed or just couldn't use the camera, it was done on purpose to achieve a certain effect, and it worked. I do agree it's not awsome, but it does make me want to watch duel and in that sense it was a sucess.

You can learn a lot about camera work by watching this movie, lesson's on - keep watching!

SgtPadrino · Post by **SgtPadrino** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:38 am

Thanks Chris.

And yeah the guns were blank firing.

Basically, I guess there's nothing wrong with doing these fights, as long as you're willing to improve and learn from them. You seem like you're serious about being a filmmaker, so that makes it all the more important that you take criticism more gracefully, and most importantly learn from it.

Zac · Post by **Zac** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:53 am

djokicko's thing... as rhys said it wasnt awesome but i loved the guns. i get wat you guys mean about the strange angles but that had waaaay too many. although i liked the shot with the close-up of the eyes and sort of rotating with the backgroung blurring around, that looked cool.

rhys · Post by **rhys** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:55 pm

SgtPadrino: Thank you for being mature on the situation of my fights sucking, unlike quite a few people on this site.
Zac: I agree, it had too many strange angles.

KeithP · Post by **KeithP** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:26 pm

The only reason they do that is become you post lame remarks time and time again. Every topic you fight with people. Everytime and its annoying. Please learn how to make movies.

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