ok need to have choice go infantry or airborne

Zacatac927 · Post by **Zacatac927** » Tue May 09, 2006 5:33 pm

ok well i have my script done and money hopefully close on its way.....
the story line is- four american soldiers are sent to assassinate an nazi general (or sargent or someone important of a good rank) and i need to decide wether they are infantry of airborne.... here are some facts:

they are parachuted in... could a covert infantry do that, or would it have to be airborne.

would i then have to buy the folding stock m1 or stay with wooden stock (it is a matter of comfortability right , so they don't have to be dealing with a big gun) right?

www.atthefront.com <- are they very accurate would i have to buy more accesories or could this cover it?

...... AND some more questions i could not find on google......

ok so its four guys, 1 commmander (would rank would he be?)
a sniper (he would have a sprinfield right?) yah
2 other guys one demolitions and the other communications/translator

ok so i have all of them carrying m1 carbines except for the sniper.... would the snipeer have a secondary gun? ( a colt or another rifle)

would someone have to have a BAR or grease gun or thompson or could i just stick with m1s?

how many greandes would each carry? would demolitions carry more?

ok thats all i have for now
thanks in advance

justin!butcher · Post by **justin!butcher** » Tue May 09, 2006 8:27 pm

Have them be airborne. Airborne pretty much WAS the covert infantry so to speak. They would pretty much only have the folding stock, altho they could have carried a wooden stocked version I cant see the point. The problem with that one is that alot of them parachuted with Garands, it was possible to do it with a full size rifle...but my best guess was that it was either the only thing they could get, or personal preference that decided what the carried.

The commander would most likely be a commisioned officer. A captain, leutenant etc. You decide.
The sniper would carry the springfield, or possibly an enfield, but most likely the sprinfield yes.
The sniper would only have a colt, and a greeeaat big knife (just kidding)
No one being parachuted in would carry a BAR, but your communications guy would have probably carried anything...but personaly I would give him the greaser.
They would have three to six grenades each, but it does depend on the person, and the demo guy wouldnt carry any more grenades but probably couple of blocks of TNT.

Im probaly wrong on half of that. Maybe epsilon can correct any of my mistakes. Hope it helped

Zacatac927 · Post by **Zacatac927** » Tue May 09, 2006 9:38 pm

oh yah another question that i could not find the answer too....

btw thanks justinbutcher for the help

ok question

i found this

US Paratrooper Uniform Issue Set:
Officially, each US paratrooper was issued 2 sets of M1942 field uniforms. Ideally, one was turned in to the rigger section to be reinforced, one was not. This set includes one of each type, allowing for a field uniform and a clean one for "walk-out". Which you use for which purpose is your choice. Includes 2 M1942 Jackets (one reinforced, one regular) and 2 M1942 trousers (one reinforced, one regular). Our 506th set substitutes a more heavily modified jacket for the re-inforced model.

Issue Set: $499.99 Save $50.00

does this kinda say your getting two uniforms for the pirce of one? one reg. and the other reinforced?

if so could i cheat and make them two uniforms and not get caught by those movie critics on i used the reinforced and reg. to make two uniforms?

thanks again

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » Tue May 09, 2006 10:20 pm

What my question is... how the heck can you write a story all about american soldiers, and leave something like whether they are leg soldiers or an elite group until the end?

It's obvious you do not know much about WW2 aspect of the Army, it would be highly beneficiary to research. Read books, first hand stories, how the ranking system was setup, etc. First off, having 4 guys on a special mission to assisinate a Nazi henchman is pretty obscure historically. Saving Private Ryan was pushing the limits as far as historical fiction credibility goes! Having a commisioned officer lead a group of 4 is CRAZY. Supposedly in SPR, it was a high priority mission that it would take an officer. Plus it was due to the fact so many troops were lost in the D-day landing, they could afford to expend him.

I would have the squad leader a corporal, and three privates (or PFCs) under his command. It's not necessary to have a radio operator nor a translator really. Perhaps it can be a sniper team, specialized for this mission. The other two should be rifleman, their task would be soley to protect the sniper as so he could complete the task. One person would be a designated spotter for the sniper and can have a pair of binoculars with him.

Weapons. M1 rifles common, submachine guns were a rarity and available to those who could get one, popular with Officers and NCOs. You don't need anything heavier, it's a light quick paced squad designed to avoid enemy contact and sneak in and out of the target area. The M1 rifle was loved because of the .30 caliber round and its Stopping power. The Carbine was a smaller round and often took several hits to take an enemy out.

Uniforms. Infantry is expensive to do correctly. Airborne requires all the same stuff as basic infantry yet twice as much on top... It would be bizarre for a paratrooper squad to perform such a mission, they are trained as paratroopers. Rangers are more known for the risky tasks and elite missions. In theory any infantry unit could be assigned to this. But I would just keep it standard leg infantry... it'll make life easier.

justin!butcher, you don't know what you are talking about. Folding stock weapons were common because it was practically the only rifle you could jump with and have available upon landing a jump. Weapons were traditionally packed during a jump and the soldier would have no way to fire it on his way down. The issued firearms for most people was the M1 rifle. The Carbine was a rarity for rifleman privates. Few soldiers had choice in weaponry. You got what you got, and most of the time it was an M1 rifle. Many privates in the Airborne divisions were able to get their hands on submachine guns in the ETO, probably because a lot of the authority didn't want them.

YES there were automatic weapons in a parachute company... Guys DID jump with BARs and sometimes a machine gun team. People did crazy things. No they weren't considered "Covert" in any way... Airborne only came from the sky, whereas infantry came from land. Everybody had a duty. It is considered an elite system because it was a higher risk duty and demanded harder training.

The concept of a sniper having a side arm is irrelevant. The side arms were issued to officers and specialized squads (like a 60mm mortar team, ie) NCOs could get ahold of them, but it was nearly impossible for a rifleman to get a hand on one. Grenades varied as much as probably how much ammo they could scramble up before they left. Perhaps nothing. You don't want your squad weighted down when they are supposed to be quick and efficient. And why the heck would they carry TNT??? They're infantry on a task to take out an officer... not engineers on a task to blast structures.

All airborne uniforms were issued UNreinforced. That was up to the wearer and was very popular for D-day June 1944 and post operations. (Yes there were paratroopers in action before D-day...)

Hope this all helps.

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » Tue May 09, 2006 10:25 pm

I know the guys at At The Front pretty well. Great people. You will like their stuff.

www.easy39th.com/impression.php Hopefully this will give you a little insight to the equipment we used in WW2. It won't be cheap in the end, done properly.

justin!butcher · Post by **justin!butcher** » Tue May 09, 2006 11:05 pm

Epsilon wrote: 1. it was a high priority mission that it would take an officer. Plus it was due to the fact so many troops were lost in the D-day landing, they could afford to expend him.

2. YES there were automatic weapons in a parachute company... Guys DID jump with BARs and sometimes a machine gun team.
The concept of a sniper having a side arm is irrelevant. The side arms were issued to officers and specialized squads (like a 60mm mortar team, ie) NCOs could get ahold of them, but it was nearly impossible for a rifleman to get a hand on one.

3. And why the heck would they carry TNT??? They're infantry on a task to take out an officer... not engineers on a task to blast structures.

1. It was a high priority mission in SPR....and it sounds to me like he wants it to be a high priority mission in this movie as well. Let him decide that. It was uncommon maybe, but not unheard of to have a commisioned officer to lead a few men when experience and leadership was required

2. Of course there where automatic weapons, but they werent BAR's. I hate to break it to you Epsilon but i have read multiple books, written by guys who where in the 101st airborne that never saw one single BAR. There was even a short part in one where the guy remembered thinking to himself how glad he was that they didnt HAVE any of them to jump with. And the key word there was "Team". A TEAM of guys would carry a squad served weapon, but in his descrition of what he wanted he didnt say anythign about that.

3. Well, first of all why the heck would a demo guy go on this type of mission, but if he did, thats what he'd carry!!!!!

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » Wed May 10, 2006 8:07 am

What? Airborne infantry never used BARs? You are kidding right? Erm yeah, nevermind. Whatever. Believe what you want. Read more books...

No matter how you look at it, there's no reason behind sending paratroopers on such a mission. That's a really a job for SOE or OSS, maybe even SSF. There's nothing so special about a sniper taking out a person either. Yeah... there were even people trained to do just that.

Zacatac927 · Post by **Zacatac927** » Wed May 10, 2006 7:22 pm

ok so what you, epsilon , is saying is they should be infantry

1 corpral with m1 carbine sidearm colt
1 sniper with springfield no sidearm?
1 spotter with ? carbine or grease gun? no sidearm?
1 demo guy carbine? no sidearm?

edit:
and seeing the thing on atthefront... does it say it comes with two uniforms one reinforce one not? so could i cheat as i said above?

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » Wed May 10, 2006 7:55 pm

In reality, it doesn't REALLY matter what the weapons arrangement would be in a situation like this. It is such an unusual mission and the troops would be specially trained for the task, it would be up to them. Side arms are up to you. Did you read what I posted? lol I don't even think an infantry unit would be sent on this type of executionary task. It is something they would have trained for.

I said you might want a corporal because you probably want an NCO to be in charge of the other three persons. Personally, I would go with the M1 rifles, maybe carbines, but there is no real big advantage to having a carbine in this situation. You could have an M3 submachine gun, but again it's not entirely necessary for the mission. Weaponry is up to you. As for the demolition guy, is he really necessary? You don't send an explosives expert on a mission like this until you plan to blow sh** up on the way!

And there is no "cheating" when if came to the jump uniforms. Many people reinforced their uniforms for D-day and after. Not everybody did. It would be up to you. Aye... understand what Rollin has written about the two uniforms is, every paratrooper was issued TWO new outfits, as per TO&E. Whether or not one is reinforced was up to the Wearer. NOW... WW2 reenactors (like myself) have no need for TWO of the exact same uniforms. SO he is offering a package deal, one reinforced and one not. BOTH are correct for post D-day June 1944 impressions.

By the way, infantry don't wear jump outfits. If they are infantry, they don't jump from airplanes.

Zacatac927 · Post by **Zacatac927** » Thu May 11, 2006 12:33 am

oh cr** sorry.... ok then hope you guys are mad at me not... hah if i were you id be a little hotheaded ok one more question

ok well is there anyway i can have them jump from a plane ?( i have this guys who owns a c47 wth dday paint job that may be able to fly over kinda giving the hint of they just landed)

ok so is there anyway i coud make them airborne?

and would someone jump with full stock m1 carnine instead of folding stock or would that be plain stupid (ok my confession the full stock carbines are much chea[per than folding ones at www.wwiiguns.com)

sorry guys with all the questions but (swear to god) i cannot find anyof this on google.

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » Thu May 11, 2006 1:31 am

I'm not mad. Hopefully you will discover more and more as you progress. You just have a long road ahead of yourself, and by getting into the mood, reading books, researching original photographs, and asking people, you will learn!

Jesus Christ, don't buy guns from them! Those guns cost more than live firearms and have those shitty caps that cost like $4 a round... They brag about having their replicas used in Band of Brothers, but they also state the firing guns are all real arms blank adapted. Don't buy from these guys. If you want to spend that much, invest in real firearms. Solid resin and airsoft replicas look just as good if you want non-firing look-alikes. But if you need blank weapons, go with real ones.

Anyway, answering your question, Both versions of the M1 carbine were used exclusively by paratroopers. However, it was rare for non airbone units to come into contact with folding stock rifles.

Airborne is fine, although a little Farby for the scenerio. It's your movie; I won't bag on it any more. Airborne infantry units were issued the same items as a standard leg infantryman, besiding a haversack in many cases, plus all their jump specialized equipment. If you are planning to use all authentic uniform items for your characters, you may end up spending in excess of $1500 per impression, plus rifles atop that. Just as a minimum, everybody will need a shirt, jacket, trousers, boots, helmet, webbing, and any other finer details to be noticed on camera.

You should also familiarize yourself with every piece of equipment and know how to use it all. Your actors should know how everything works and how to act in a military manner. The outfit sells much of the movie, but knowing how it all works will help you much. If you can get ahold of live rifles, take them out to the range with your actors and burn some brass. Understand the significance of your weapon. Learn how to clean them too! At least, I would find yourself some WW2 reenactors that could help you out in the area. Also, reenactors all have blank adapted weapons which may be beneficiary to you.

Here's a great link for WW2 info: www.hardscrabblefarm.com
It should answer many of your questions.

Zacatac927 · Post by **Zacatac927** » Thu May 11, 2006 7:18 pm

ok thanks so much.... ok before i search google which i will in a sec do you have any good places to buy replica guns?

Raptor · Post by **Raptor** » Thu May 11, 2006 9:44 pm

10th Mountain - Light infantry rapid deployment force and active in Norther nitaly during WW-II
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_10th_Mo ... h_Mountain

smokeythebear · Post by **smokeythebear** » Thu May 11, 2006 9:53 pm

zac tac how much are you wiling to pay per gun??

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » Fri May 12, 2006 1:54 am

But the 10th Mountain were technically trained for snowy environments. lol

Zacatac927, what is your story about?

Zacatac927 · Post by **Zacatac927** » Fri May 12, 2006 5:05 pm

ok well the story is four americans paratrooping into northern france to assassinate a general..... i have the script up here somewhere on this site i think under scripts "my ww2 film"

yah smokeythebear well i guess $200 for a carbine $40 for a good colt
$200 for a springfield with scope

yah i guess that seems right

justin!butcher · Post by **justin!butcher** » Fri May 12, 2006 5:10 pm

Depends what you want. If you want blank firing weapons Idk, but a resin WWII carbine is 200.00
http://www.stage-props-blank-guns.com/s ... c-232.html

The blank guns (the only one I found was a colt) was cheaper than a resin model (Who knows why) http://www.stage-props-blank-guns.com/s ... c-252.html

Hope this helps

Zacatac927 · Post by **Zacatac927** » Fri May 12, 2006 5:32 pm

yah hah i was just there... but thanks anyways....

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » Fri May 12, 2006 10:45 pm

Those guys actually sell the same items on eBay for less. Their blank guns are expensive, and you can find those KIMAR pistols for $90 typically.

Zacatac927 · Post by **Zacatac927** » Sun May 14, 2006 11:32 pm

ok well howdy doo... i was looking at a few guns that they sell on wwiiguns.com and other sites and they are the same... i think im going to stay with them....

so i have airborne jumpsuits with 2 gunys with full wooden stock m1s 1 grease gun 1 springfield

and only the comander has a colt?

oh boy!

smokeythebear · Post by **smokeythebear** » Mon May 15, 2006 10:29 pm

wwii guns are scammers. Ive heard all but good about them

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 4:27 am

So what is the latest?

MattHawkins Online - Film Making Forum

ok need to have choice go infantry or airborne

ok need to have choice go infantry or airborne

RE: ok need to have choice go infantry or airborne