My names mark, i'm a 31 year old guy from east anglia uk, this is relevant pls read on.
Looking for colloborator for low budget professional project.
I'm looking for someone with very good camcorder, cannon xl1/2 + ideally some SFX software.............
What I will offer:-
1) A well written 90 minute script, needs discussion about what exactly it will be but i'm quite an experienced writer (amateur)
2) Looking for co-directing credit or at least discussion about methods. I hate slow mo/shaky cam, like old school direction(films such as raiders of the lost ark, terminator)i'm not a john woo fan.
If can find a director who has my tastes, no directing credit required at all.
3) I will choreograph all the action, can also be martial artist if needed, my acting is ok too, not looking to be star though.
4) I have a friend who is excellent at music, he can provide a score for the film.
5) I can provide some funds, too a point.
6) It will be an original project, not a fan film (can't sell those)
7) Would prefer someone who has ambitions to be professional, as that is my goal.
ENGLISH GUYS PLS, sorry all you americans/aussies but for practical reasons.
Last edited by marktut on Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Well, theres only one on here I can think of that has what you require.. but this is a filmmaking site, and you don't even know what you want to do, your basiclly comming here and saying " someone let me use your stuff to make a film" when they could do their own orginal piece of work! What I suggest - use whatever kind of camera you can get. So what if it's not great, it dosn't need to be.
For an amatuer low budget film - a co director isn't really necesery when you have your self.
Lastly.. how can you be an experianced writer but amatuer at the same time? lol, thats like being good and bad.
I wish you the best of luck, it seems as if your asking for to much for a first film though.. when you don't even have an idea. Nobodys going to want to help if you just say " hey lets make a movie..." Start off by comming up with your idea, your script, everything , before even considering to find people to help.
I believe Blade, what he is really looking for is a DP with gear, not at all an uncommon request in teh real world. Although if really looking for release or distro, I would tend to look for someone who can bring more than an XL1/2 to the table. If you are looking for distro, then you probably want something with a bit more than 1/3inch CCDs and better resolution than DV can provide. Not that it can't be done, but look into maybe DVCPro50, BetaSP, DigiBeta etc. I believe what he is basically saying, is I want to make a low budget film - Low budget in real world terms is less than a a million USD for all practical purposes. For the typical no-budget flicks we produce here, yeah, any camera will do. And hey, I know lots of experienced amateurs. I know amateur writers who have sold stories. I have network credit on CNN. The Weather Channel and CBS, as well as local news and local programming and commercials, but I'm still an amateur by definition. After 10 years of shooting video seriously, while I make a decent second income from shooting.. the majority of my income is from my day job, so I too am an experienced amateur.
Now what is he really looking for.. a collaborator, someone who wants to work the story from the ground up. Perhaps someone who has ideas for plot and story lines, but can't get them into a finished script. That is part of Mark's contribution. So let's take a DP with good gear, who can shoot and light and understands how to get a great image onto tape, mix that with a writer who understands plot and character development. Put these two together to work on teh story line and script, co-direct so that both of their visions can make it to the finished product.. and hey guess what.. we have something that sounds like the way a real movie is produced!
Blade, I think what Mark is looking for is exactly the type of thing this forum should promote. Instead of one person trying to do it all, the way most of us do, he wants to take the talents of several people, and allow each to do what he does best.
If any of us wants to move to the next level in film making, then we need to get past the concept of one guy doing it all... writing, directing, shooting... because none of us can do it all well, not even you Blade...
So next time, instead of being so negative, () sometimes it seems like that's a little tough for you to do ) try to at least look at what someone is asking for.
Mark, best of luck on the production, sounds like it's going to be a big project, but looking forward to updates as it goes on. After you find your DP, don't forget to get a decent audio guy who can get the mix on the dialog for you- 70% of video is audio...
Keep us posted!
The UNDERGROUND
[url]http://theundergroundtv.com[/url]
Music television for unsigned bands
Thanks for constructive reply raptor, I have seen blades comments before on here, they do seem to be on the negative side.
What sort of amateur films do you make raptor? Do you make fan films or your own original films?
I assume you don't have a one of the "better" cams you mention?
I have heard of those cams before but didn't presume anybody on here would have one.
Are you any good at special effects or do you know another guy who is?
I certainly think colloboration is the way too go, my main talent is writing too be honest.
But I heavily dislike alot of newer directors (i'm talking professional ones)seems to be all fast cuts, shaky cam and slow motion, 3 techniques for me that should only be used very occassionally.
They seem to think directing a pop video and directing a feature film is the same thing.
For modern directors, even though I don't love his movies (due to their scripts)I think M. Night Shyamalan is a good director, my favourite film of his is unbreakable.
So do I need a DP,I assume you mean director of photography? Not essential if I can find an old school director with my tastes(not sure if thats too much too ask BUT would hate too see a script i'd take a year writing be messed up by what I see as bad direction)
Thanks for reply raptor again, it was well written/thought out.
Last edited by marktut on Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
the "............." bit is just my style of writing on forums.
By writer I mean scriptwriter not author...........my command of the english language is good but when posting on forums I just post and don't bother to use spellcheck etc as this is just chat.......
Writing on forums is rarely grammatically correct or even spelt correctly.
My scriptwriting skills are good and I have a professional programme I bought called Scriptware which I use for format etc.........
Too clarify the "............" mean nothing at all, just a habit i've picked up.
LOL I do the same thing... I usually stick to just three or four, the ever popular elipses - generally means.. more here, in teh case of forums, I usually interpret it to mean - I've given you enough information for you to isert your own interpretation here.
Right now I shoot on a VX2100, probably make the move to DVCPro or DVCAM - full size camera early next year. Actually probably DVCam since i'll likely stick with Sony rather than going to panny.
As far as films, we have worked on some ideas for an all original, right now though, we are up to our eyeballs in TV production.
We produce a weekly half hour show aired on the local Fox affiliate - unsigned bands, so funny you should mention the shakey-cam MTV style of shooting and editing LOL, we do it every week. I also soot news for local stations as a freelancer as well as for The Weather Channel as a freelancer.
As far as effects, most of what I do in effects is TV graphics. Not so much SFX in the traditional sense. My jobs on the crew, besides being one of the managing partners in the Company, is DP/Produer-Director. I also do some of the audio tech work when both our hosts are on camera. When recording the actual music videos, I turn over the audio duties to our male host. Chris handles the sound board. We use a 16 channel mixer patched into the outputs of the bands PA with a couple of room mics, remix for our levels, then feed an 8 channel sound card and record directo HD using cakewalk or audition. When shooting interviews, or our standups, we use a four channel batery powered mixer from Radio shack, a couple of wireless lavs, and a sennheiser shotgun into the camera. In those cases, the audio becomes my problem LOL. Music videos, we use a three man crew Chris on the audio, me shooting more 'traditiional' news style, our 'drunk-cam' operator ( we can't afford a steady cam op LOL ) shooting the dutch, rack focus MTV style shots and four locked down static cams, one on each side of the stage and one on each side of teh drummer. Writing duties are generally on the fly. The intervieqws are all off the cuff, more like sitting around chatting with the band. Standups are 'semi- scripted'. We have certain topics we always hit, and there will be certain things I'll give Chris and Kathy a geberal outline and some key lines, and then let them have at it. The ad libbed stuff is usually the best, and we need the outtakes to run with the credits anyway LOL....
As far as movie directing, I suppose it depends a lot on what feeling you are trying to convey. I generally like a good solid shot, set up and lit correctly. There are places however where the sharp cuts, shakey look can be used to convey the emotion of the scene. Probably neither is 100% correct, but I believe there are mor places where the 'shakey-cam' is wrong. A lot of people tend to think the Blair Wich project proved that lousy cinematography can still produce a comercially viable movie. BWP is an example of how to apply that style correctly as a DP. It is used to differntiate between the first person scenes and the third person scenes.
I think a lot of modern movies are more created for the shock value. Or maybe the schtick value LOL... take a look at say 'Kill Bill" 1&2. Definitely a lot of schtick, like scabrds on airline seats? OK so this is a world where everyone carrries some type of blade eh? Even the scenes which had a lot of gore were done with a bit of camp. Both were the type of movies to be taken for what they really were. Borderline satirical.
BTW nice to see another 'old man' on the forums LOL. Although I'm willing to bet I'm probably the only grandfather on here...( 47 YO ).
The UNDERGROUND
[url]http://theundergroundtv.com[/url]
Music television for unsigned bands
What's wrong with a little "..."? What annoys me is when someone wants to use profanity but instead uses stuff like "***" or "@#@@$@" and other junk. If you don't want to swear, use other stuff. And anyways, what benefit is there to swear. (no question mark cause I was making a statement)
Another comment. Marktut, I just got done shooting my feature film, and you don't need a co-director, I thought I did. My co-director then quit. Then I thought I needed a assistant director, that was a big mistake. Thought I needed a DP, that person quit. At the end, it is safer when being low budget, to have only ONE cook in the kitchen.
I'm just being truthfull. Seriously, a lot of people can say "Lets go make a movie, im an amatuer writer / low budget amatuer director but we can do this." I mean, do you have anything to show us for past work? Whats going to convince someone to help you, when you don't even have a script idea? If thats negitive, then you've seriously got some issues.
It's the way you present it Blade, sounded neative to me.
But again, look at what he wants... Mark please correct me if I'm wrong.
A collaborator... why do you need a finished script when you are looking for a collaborator? That's the idea, someone to help with plot and story line... the writer can then flesh out the script.
In other words, he's not looking for someone to do "his" movie, but for someone to work on a prject of joint interest.
The co-director... if you read it carefully, Mark may want to be co-director, if he is confident that his collaborator has the same vision as him, then he may not want to act as the co-director.
Do you need a DP separate from teh director? Maybe, maybe not. But if you have more than a couple hundred dollars wrapped up in your movie, and can find someone to do it, why not? The DP's job is completely different than the director. The director decides how he wants the shot to look, the DP, gets that shot, the director decides the mood he wants, the DP sets the mood with lights. The director should not be concerned with how to get the shot, just the ashot he wants. Depending on the DP and teh director, the DP may also choose the final camera placement and angles. If one man wears both hats, then one job or the other suffers. There is either too much time wasted by one man trying to do both jobs, or one job is negelected. And when the director is behind the camera, he isn't paying attention to the action. And if he is paying attention to the action while there, tehn he isn't paying attention to the shot, the backgrounds, the framing, changes in teh light from when he set the shot up an hour ago.
Bottom line is - if you want to produce material like Grayson, or Recon 2020, then it's time to start early perfecting your craft the right way. Learn to qwork in a team. Yeah, for no budget shorts ( say under $200.00 under 10 minutes) you can get away doing it all, but even on micro budget movies.. ( let's call those $1000.00 to $20,000) it would sure be nice to make sure that money wasn't wasted, that we didn't have to reshoot a shot because of some silly oversight on an overworked director trying to play DP.
Even our show, we pay $350.00 a week just for the air time. Add in recouping gear costs, our advertising costs in a week, and we're at an easy $500.00 per week to get on the air, not counting consumeables, wear and tear on equipment etc. I want to make damned sure that the product that hits the air waves is the absolute best it can be. The best part is there is damned little directing involved in what we do, other than some basic direction - and Chris handles a lot of that even tho he is also on camera. Me, I have my hands full making sure that the lighting is what I want and is consistent. I get almost fanatical about getting the light correct when we shoot on green screen. Chris and Kathy take advantage of that to work out their lines, and any movements. Then they brief me on what they are going to do, and I have to make sure I get it on tape the way it was envisioned. On outside shoots, or locations where I have limited control of lighting, then I may take more of the directors role, making the best use of the available light and backgrounds. But it's a real tough place to be when you are working on a deadline.
The UNDERGROUND
[url]http://theundergroundtv.com[/url]
Music television for unsigned bands
I3lade203 wrote:I'm just being truthfull. Seriously, a lot of people can say "Lets go make a movie, im an amatuer writer / low budget amatuer director but we can do this." I mean, do you have anything to show us for past work? Whats going to convince someone to help you, when you don't even have a script idea? If thats negitive, then you've seriously got some issues.
......... wow.. just delete those previous posts...
The point is , maybe you could plan your film before asking for help? It's just a way to get more people interested.. unless your looking for a writer.. even then you should have a basic idea of what you want to do.
I don't have a script ready as it needs discussion about what it should be.
By this I mean I need to find a partner first to talk about what project we will work on.
As I am intending to make a low budget project that at the very least can be sold to a tv channel, it needs to look as professional as it can.
Therefore I need to know what resources myself + my potential directing partner has, eg locations, actors.
Theres no point writing something that just isn't possible on a practical level.
I may be able to write the next sci-fi blockbuster but on a low budget it would look cr**.
Too sum up, I will base my script around what locations and actors myself and my potential partner can get.
I expect the script/story will be modern day and in the thriller/crime genre.
I never agree with Blade, and I have to agree with him this time. You are asking alot of somebody blindly. You are asking someone to commit their time, money, equipment, and mind, into something they know nothing about. You say that writing is your best aspect, well that is mine too, but you still aren't going to sell someone saying you are a good writer. You can say as you please but people can only choose whether or not to believe you. Personally I say you have no skills, and I only base this on I have seen nothing of your's nor can I attest for you claims.
Maybe you should start by writing a sypnopsis, or a general idea of what you may have in mind. Not a novel, rather a two or three page idea. This is what you can pitch. It might help you to catch your potential partner. You will never get anywhere putting yourself on the line with nothing to prove. As has been shown here before you. You probably thought someone would jump up and say "Hey pick me! Pick me." when nobody volunteered at all. This is because no one can yet trust you. No one knows what you are and aren't capable of.
I too am a writer, published mulitple times professionally. I don't try to sell my scripts though, only my short fiction and my soon to be completed novel. This is because I like to make my films along with my filmming partner. I do see where you are coming from with the whole partner deal. Twice the locations, twice the friends as actors, twice the creative brainstorming. So I guess what I am trying to say here is, instead of putting yourself out there, you must first sell yourself to your potential buyers. I would advise finding a common ground in this matter, someone who like you needs a buddy, a friend, someone to share your creative goals with rather than asking for someone to do it. This isn't the only filmmaking forum out there, there are hundreds, and of those hundreds of forums there are thousands of members, you just have to find the one.
Best of Luck,
Andrew
"They're people who only want to be involved in filmmaking to get rich, get famous, or get laid. They know as much about filmmaking as George W. Bush knows about hand-to-hand combat"- Jim Jarmusch
I guess i woulld say, "I have to take the Robert Rodreguez approach to this!" I used to not agree with the approach of doing it ALL! I never wanted to be a DP, never wanted to do the effects, never wanted to do alot. But it was a benefit to my craft to do it all. I tried to organize a team. I like being the general who delegates down to others. That's the way its suppose to be. You give someone what you want, they use their talent to acheive it. I didn't want to learn lights or sound. But it was to my benefit at the end to do it that way.
Now, in the future, on my next project, when I have a larger team, I can understand why the DP set the lights this way, or the SFX guy did that, and why I need this peice of equipment for the sound. And I'll respect them more cause I walked in their shoes once. Hopefully, won't have to walk in their shoes again. But if so, I'll be more capable.
May I ask your age, and where have you been published professionally?............
You have asked my qualifictaions so I think it is only fair that I ask yours, especially where you say you have been published (I would be genuinely interested to read what you wrote)
I think yourself and raptor have so far written by far the best replys to my initial proposal which maybe thinking about it was a bit vague.
I shall post some of my script pages on the "script" part of the site.
Well the first book I was published in was the Anthology Collection published by LBF books titled Holiday Choir: Emerging Voices. Holiday Choir was simply a teaser to our major release in March of Emerging Voices. Holiday Choir's original print produced 500 copies, all were sold, and a second print was made, we have now sold 200 of the second 500.
You can see more products at http://www.lbfbooks.com. I have also been featured in the Writer's Post Journal, Ediface Wrecked, StoryHouse Coffee Monthly, and have been published on Glimmertrain.com.
Whether or not you choose to believe me is your decision. I am only 16, a very select few of my collegues actually know this. Most publishers don't know, only for the fact of discrimination for my age. There are a few people around here who could attest for my saying so, believe what you wish.
I would be willing to send you some of the stuff that has been published. Contact me in a PM.
Andrew
"They're people who only want to be involved in filmmaking to get rich, get famous, or get laid. They know as much about filmmaking as George W. Bush knows about hand-to-hand combat"- Jim Jarmusch
Just to make an observation, not directed in any negative way at anyone poster but here goes.
As a generally younger group ( And a coupleof you are the same age as or younger than my yougest children) some of the responses here have been among the most cynical I have ever seen. Mark's proposal is a perfectly legitamate pitch as a business proposal. BTW congrats Movieman . My first thought when IO saw the print runs you mentionede was that this was a 'vanity press', where the author pays for the actual publication run. Perused that site and found no indication that it was in fact that type of an operation. Not that vanity publishing is necessarily a bad way to start your writing career, it just struck me as odd that a publisher would gear up to do a run of only 500 copies. Hardly seems to be cost effective to set up for such short runs. But I digress...
The one thing in this business is that there is no 'sure thing' and no way to tell when the next big thing is going to come along. Again, what Mark is proposing is a perfectly legitimate way to start this endeavor. Firstof all, someone above said he was asking for a lot from someone.. seems to me, all he is initially asking for is some one to sit down and come up with an acceptable story line that both parties would be interested in producing. Not a whole lot of committment there except some time and a bit of thought. As far as commitment, teh initial stages of the work would be his - the script. If you sit down, and come up with an idea that appeals to both of you, and Mark comes up with the first draft script, you see it it is total trash, you simple walk away from teh project while expresing your regrets. He has all the effort up to that point, you have invested little to nothing to that point.
If it were geographically feasible, I personally would take the time to at least discuss the idea with Mark. Before we started production on The Underground, none of us had any production television to our credit. I was the nly one with any TV credit, and that was all in news and weather video, a far cry from sripted, or even semi scripted production work. My lighting skills were based on my still photography background, which while similar to video, and definitely useful, still was a different beast from lighting for video. but at least I understood the basics of light placement, hard and soft light, color temperature etc. Some weddings and events under my belt, but again, a far cry from TV production work. But somehow, we have managed to get on the air, stay there for the last four months, hell actually produce some numbers in the November ratings period Not great numbers mind you, but hey we were on against football all month LOL...
Now how does this all relate? Well, The Underground premiered on Oct. 9th 2004, but we apporached the first band we filmed in early March 2004 and shot their videos two weeks later, and agian a couple weeks after that, and then again in a few more weeks.
Basically here is what we told them...
We have this idea, it's a TV show featuring local unsigned bands. We may be on broadcast TV or it may be on teh local cable access channel. Now we've never produced a 'real' live music video with more than one camera, and we have this idea that we can patch into your soundboard, run it thru our mixer, which we have yet to purchase, and get decent audio. Haven't tried it but it should work. We aren't 100% sure of the format the show is going to take yet. But it will have a video or two, and we're thinking probably like an interviw segment to intorduce the band. Chris here is going to be one of the hosts, and we're going to find a girl to act as his co-host - but we're not sure who. So how about we come out and shoot a video for you, and it'll cost you $xxx.xx for the two videos. Now since this is an unproven idea, we'll do all the work, if you like the videos, you pay us. If the videos suck, and you don't want copies of them, then no charge, and if they suck so bad you don't want them, then they definitely won't go on TV.
That was how we approached band #1. Now it took us three tries to get it right - to get the audio, the right mix of cameras to get the look we wanted, and a good handle on how we needed to have the lighting and audio set fromt he bands people. But, if they had insisted on seeing our previous work, had balked at our pitch due to the bnumerous holes in it, the whole string of unanswered questions, then the entire project would have never gotten of the ground. But we did finally produce a good pair of videos, during all those shoots, we made some contacts with other bands that were interested in getting on board, and by the beginning of September, we had six bands lined up who believed enough in an unproven concept, that they all came out and performed at our kickoff party, a week before the show premiered. Not only did they play the party ( three bands on Friday, three on Sat ) they paid us to produce the videos, played for nothing, and thanked us profusely for the opportunity.
We jsust worked with a band out of Washington DC, who never saw the show up until the night they came into town to play the show we booked them for, today I booked a band from NYC, and these guys will be going somewhere very soon I think, who really had no idea where in pennsylvania we even are.
The bands we have dealt with have goten a ton of exposure, are getting booked in venues that otherwise never would have kown they even existed. But if they hadn't taken a chance on an unproven concept with no track record to back it up, they would have goten none of the publicity, and we wouldn't have been on the air.
Basically every one took a long shot, and it's payed off. If you take the cynical approach to anything new, chances are you will be doing the same thing forever. I talk to people who I went to school with. They have been working the same job, for the same people for the last 25 - 30 years. And they'll be working there another 25 years, same thing, day in/day out for your entire working carreer. Why? For teh most part, they are afraid to take that chance. They only want to go for the sure thing. I've been at my current 'day job' for not quite 10 years - by far the longest I've been any one place in my working carreer. And I already have the timing planned for when I'll leave that job, unless things change between now and then where current projects advance enough to replace my income. But hey, if you never take a chance, and never step out of your safe zone, then you might as well resign yourself to working for someone else the rest of your life, and watching your dreams on your DVD player, or Internet. But if you step up, take a chance, and are willing to invest of your time and talent in a project, work it and treat it with the importance it deserves, you can enjoy the prospect of spending your life doing something you love. For some people, security is all they really want out of life, and thank goodness we have those people. They are the ones who spend their entire life in factories and offices, doing the same thing day in and day out. That's not for me. The jobs I've enjoyed, even tho I work for someone else, are those that have given me the autonomy to do the job my way, to have some control over how I accomplish the goals the job requires and also to expand those requirements, to have some input into the development of the overall process. To take some ownership of what I do and how I do it. If I didn't have that working where I do now, I'd have been long gone. But to get there, I had to take a chance - to go to work for startup companies, or small companies. Hey I've worked for companies that had a line of credit at the bank so they could cover payroll every two weeks, but we all had an opportunity to help that company grow. I spent about 7 years there, then it was time for a change.
So what id the point of this long pointless rant?
If you always take the safe, proven, route, you only stifle the creative process. All you have to do is look at the handful of people who signed up with a little startup in the early 80's. You know. Microsoft.
The UNDERGROUND
[url]http://theundergroundtv.com[/url]
Music television for unsigned bands
ENGLISH GUYS PLS, sorry all you americans/aussies but for practical reasons.
