WWII Outfits and Gear

[Recogged]

I should have been a bit clearer, I know. I'm a student, 18, Australia, working to about a $1000 budget from my own pocket. There's 3 main characters and 2-3 extras in the whole thing, thats it for actors, the script has small patrol vs patrol - based action. I'm not as stringent on historical accuracy, though, because you could probably argue this doesn't fit too closely into the "war" genre. It's more like a generic story that happens to take place in WW2. The setting is meant to be a vehicle for the narrative, not the other way round. On the other hand, I don't want to insult anyone or tarnish the memories of those who fought in WW2. What do you think?

[Lawriejaffa]

Please Recogg remind me why your particular ww2 film is relevant and why it should be interesting in comparison to all others that are not lol (made routinely in these forums) ?

Maj Barnes just where do u get a K98 for $100 and german style helmets for $30!? and ech the $20 trenchcoat is that on ebay or wholesale etc?

I'm gonna sound like a bitchy moan here so feel free to slap me, but i fail to grasp why ooohhhh why, anyone making a ww2 film would collect a belt, then a buckle, then a boot then a helmet etc; or would consider making a ww2 film with such few actors (when lets face it chaps we know usually its not tenessee williams writing the damn script...)

Most of all what annoys me (perhaps Epsilon i hope will agree here) is that there is way too much boasting about how cheap things are attained, the price is IRRELEVANT to the quality of the finished film.

Now that is a contraversial statement, (right now you are thinking) that no way man, studios love guys that save money, or... hey we're just kids we must make every dollar count etc... but thats just rubbish, because really those kids are so excited about 'collecting these items' that the energy expended on the minutia, irrelevant and exhausting process of garnering these items (so seperately) in the end, makes the film cr** due to lack of time invested in 'it' instead.

Now I used my skills (by no means amazing) to get me 30 WOOL German style tunics and trousers, which I think will help to make a film better, but the reason i got that deal for the clothes, was cos instead of hunting for aeons for a buckle here or there on ebay, I instead acted like a PRODUCER and got deals, or worked for credit or got stuff.

One final point, if a film costs 1000$ or 20000$, yet the 20000$ film is only 1% better, then the 20k film is still better than the cheaper version... (price is irrelevent if it consumes something far more expensive... TIME!)

[maj_barnes]

I've seen K98's at gunshows for $100 (mine was $120), I've also seen them in shotgun news for as low as $90. The german style helmet I got was from ebay, it was the yellow colored fire helmets, I just painted it and took off the leather neck protector, and a $20 trenchcoat I got from an Army/Navy store. But I'm sure if I waited out on ebay, I could have gotten a real german helmet for $30.

Also, if the costumes and gear in a movie are not up to par, it doesn't mean that the movie is cr**. IF your such a gear nut to ignore the movie it self and rather condemn it for the props used then how can you call yourself a filmmaker? If a movie is directed greatly has a good story, then it's a good movie regardless of imperfections for gear. If a movie has a few actors in it, so what? Not every battle in WW2 was a massive human wave. There was plenty of small unit action; besides, if someone can come up with a story that uses only a few actors and is good, then why does it matter if there is only a few people in it? If making a WW2 film with sub par equipment and a few actors helps increase their skill as a filmmaker, then by all means go for it.

That's great that you can get all that stuff, but it comes down to is not everyone has that kind of money to spend. If it does mean I have to spend more time looking for little deals, then so be it. If acting like a producer means I have to go in debt for a past time that will probably only bring back maybe a $100 from sales to friends then I probably won't go through with it. Because yet again: it's a past time hobby, I still have to worry about school and other things.

And on your final point, if spending $19000 just to increase the movie betterness (new word!) by 1%, then I'd rather stay with the $1000 one.

[Lawriejaffa]

Thats not really my point barnes ol' boy, I think you have misconstrued my statements as an attack on productions utilising small numbers of actors?!? Also I don't say anything regarding costume quality but i will now...

WW2 is like reproducing any historical period, it requires detailed attention if your going to convince audiences. My point certainly was not that you need 30 tunics to do that... my point in saying that, is that i expended my energy doing work for others, to get what I wanted, instead of expending it more uselessly on the minutia of small scale collection.

Because my point also, is that TIME IS MONEY, for many film-makers the kind of minutia of collection such as exhibited sometimes here would be a joke. IF the defence of such a film-maker is, well thats cos its 'just my hobby' then, its not just a defence against accusation of directorial incompetence, but also a reason...

Would 1% improvement in a film be worth 19K$ well sure it would, if money you are playing with is big... my point in saying is that since money is so subjective to the end result, and since people will be making films from completley different financial backgrounds (some will have so much it means nothings, others will have none) that there is therefore no point in seeing 'value' in economising to such an extent as its seen here. Hence this kind of adolescent prefixation with buying it for a buck & half is well... irrelevant, when if time was spent selling the project for funding, (even modest) you would not have to wait for weeks to get a shoe or something. And of course, if one could not get investment of any kind whatsoever... then naturally that project is very possibly not worth proceeding with anyway.

In no way whatsoever tho barnes am i a gear-nut... and sure a film with a small cast CAN be amazing! obviously... but that takes a skill of writing way beyond many of the adolescent juvenile minds here... (and if thats why their still at school hehe... is a ww2 film really such an intelligent project to pursue as yet...) hehe

[maj_barnes]

or would consider making a ww2 film with such few actors (when lets face it chaps we know usually its not tenessee williams writing the damn script...)

Critizing amount of actors.

because really those kids are so excited about 'collecting these items' that the energy expended on the minutia, irrelevant and exhausting process of garnering these items (so seperately) in the end, makes the film cr** due to lack of time invested in 'it' instead.

Costume Quality.

Saying it's just my hobby isn't directorial imcompetence, it's true, it is just my hobby. I make hardly any money doing it, so I don't have much to spend. Directorial incompetence is not taking a project and running with it. Even so time is money, money is money, not every person can afford large collections. Mine is small as cr**, I don't need a large one since I don't intend to be recreating any D-Day landings. The whole reason why some people wait out getting a little here and a little there is their dedication to the film; most of the people here do not have the age that someone entrust money to. Me, I've been collecting cr** since January; I have enough to fit up a 5 infantry troops, and two germans. It's been a while, but who cares, I'm dedicated enough to continue.

You sound like a gear nut though, you're saying if you don't have the s***, don't do it.

Even if they don't have the skill making a crappy movie still means improvement. I remember my first attempt at a WW2 movie, it was 5 minutes of complete s***. But I learn from that, and continued to learn more and more about what I should and should not do. Let them pursue whatever they want, because that experince will help them out.

[Lawriejaffa]

Sure,

or would consider making a ww2 film with such few actors (when lets face it chaps we know usually its not tenessee williams writing the damn script...)

That point stands... that few actors can work if it is legitimised by an amazing script, due to the fact there will be less visuals, less scale, less everything...

Directorial incompetence (and bear in mind this is obviously just my opinion) is when to create a film we become focussed on those elements that are counter-productive. Sure okay, its just your hobby, for many in the forums they are not mere hobbyists, so take my advice in the perspective that it is for one pursuing a real film, a professional attempt.

And once again, I am not a gear nut lol, and sure I would say if you don't have the goods don't do the film, but that isnt a 'gear nut', thats common sense...

Finally, of course we should make films we can learn from, but one must consider also what it is they are learning, if their attempts to produce a film are focussed on minutia and comparitive irrelevance.

Do not think I am some kind of guy with bags of money, I am no different to most here, the means to get far more for your time and effort are in everyones disposal... but whether we take the chance to make a film or get concenred with the petty details of our hobby, is indeed, the difference between film-makers and amatuers.

[maj_barnes]

Sure okay, its just your hobby, for many in the forums they are not mere hobbyists, so take my advice in the perspective that it is for one pursuing a real film, a professional attempt.

Whoever is on here, it is just their hobby. You can make a professional attempt at something and still let it be a hobby. It is a hobby because I don't see anyone here dipping into their college funds or savings accounts just to make a "professional attempt" at a movie.

I don't think your a guy with bags of money, I think your a guy who is much older, and with age comes responsibility, and with that people can entrust you with more than the average 14 or 15 year old. The petty details of the hobby is what will make or break the film, the little details are the biggest details in some cases, and to deny those could crash the film altogther.

[Lawriejaffa]

Yep well i'd agree with that, in anycase barnes you're doing imo is pretty cool, gathering the props and costumes you have, you've done pretty well I think. I don't mean that to sound pompous obviously (like ooh look the boy's done well lol - not like that.)

What aggravates me isnt your own projects, its having to witness pre-pubescent ww2 warriors fighting with pink dish clothes and 2/d wooden guns lol...

I see myself as an artist (that doesnt mean im a good one lol) but i take it very passionately, where as (editing computer games like ofp for fun) is my hobby. And hell, dipping into college funds etc is nothing compared to what directors have done to get money to make a movie, i mean theres no 'just a professional attempt' normally these are pivotal attempts like sonnyboos thing (he might make out - i dont know if he does, that it costs little or was easy etc, i doubt he would, but in anycase im sure it wasnt) poor old Rodriguez (forgive the typo) doing Mariachi sold his body for medical science to raise funds, while i gave up all my weekends to photo catalogues for free costumes...

Are you 14,15? In any case barnes, I'm sure your ww2 project will be superior to many of the ww2 shorts produced here - if u like i could even take a wee gander at the script for ya sometime

[maj_barnes]

What aggravates me isnt your own projects, its having to witness pre-pubescent ww2 warriors fighting with pink dish clothes and 2/d wooden guns lol...

You have to bare through the worst to get the best, lol. Look at Tallman, he started out like that, and now look.

But no, I'm 17; I thought 14, 15 was a good average for people I see here. But I doubt my stuff will be as good as others, although there isn't many, lol. But whenever I find that script I'll send it to ya.

[tallman_house_pictures]

Yea, I'm only 14, and I have collected a collection of Uniform items, gear, and weapons which I dare say I can match anyone here.
I'd say go make the film with whatever you can put together. If the enthusiasm is really there, you will find yourself scrounging, making, begging, borrowing, steal (ok, that was a col Sink quote), and you wil have ever better stuff in a short period of time. It's not like you have to say: ok, im gonna put $3 000 in right now! The money comes, when you have some from a job, you can buy one piece, you just buy what you can and the rest will take care of itsself. I came from a cheap impression with a toy mp5 and a modern canadian BDU, to a full web gear impression with an m1 garand in about 1 1/2 years.

[SgtPadrino]

If you're in Australia, I'd highly suggest that you not make Europe the subject of the film. I dunno, depending on the terrain, maybe Italy?

And no, completely accurate uniforms don't make or break a WWII film. How many people here saw Gyro's "Forgotten?"

[Lawriejaffa]

Arrgh lol,

look (just in case sgt padrino) you are commenting on how exact stuff is not need in regards to thinking i said this, i did not lol

The point i was making, was not that exact things are needed, it was a criticism for those film-makers who expend time collecting odd bits, instead of investing that time, in raising more finance, or even doing work for credit, or for deals that would gain larger amounts of objects, as a 'producer' would for a film, as opposed to a 'hobby-collector- for militaria who buys perhaps one thing a week, or even a fortnight, who just wants to film himself and his mates showing off their gradual ebay collections.

See i take the viewpoint of an aggressive businessman, who networks and builds alliances, who builds deals and tries to get what is needed for an ambitious film right away or soon as possible lol. (doesnt mean im good at it tho lol)

It came over though as a bit aggressive against guys that are under 16 on these forums (i do not think that most are under 16 on these forums though...) and its complicated cos this forum attracts film-makers who are hobbyists or self declared amatuers, and others who are professionals (of the lowest to lower sphere usually hehe) So certainly I didn't want to bite on the asses of u 14 year olds (Cos hell i think u guys are crazy for even trying but if its for fun then hell rock on) my comments are more for these guys who are trying to achieve 'a lot more' and it was that frustration with those, that i said what i did.

[maj_barnes]

Okay enough with that.

I was wondering with the Thompson sub machine gun. With the one with the bolt on the top rather than on the side. When it fires does the bolt get blown back and stay in the back postion or does it go back to the start postion in a full cocking movement?

[UnkindSky]

Gawd... if i new you people cared so much about props i wouldnt be using Swiss helmets for americans lol. Ok im done (and jk jk). And i think the bolt gets blown back and stay in the back position. You ment with every bullet fired right? If so then it gets blown back.

[tallman_house_pictures]

maj barnes, that would be the M1 thompson.
If you watch windtalkers you can get a better idea of its operation. The bolt starts at the back, and flys forward when the trigger is pulled and is blown back again in the same motion. If it is on semi it will stop back, and if the trigger is still being pulled it will repeat the action.

[maj_barnes]

Okay, just want to make sure because I was about to animate the bolt in a video.

And I try not to watch Windtalkers.

Also for helmets: if they look American, I use them.

[tallman_house_pictures]

Haha...i guess its hard to mess up the action of a gun (even for John Woo)

[Gyro]

And no, completely accurate uniforms don't make or break a WWII film. How many people here saw Gyro's "Forgotten?"

I saw it!

[maj_barnes]

Lair.

[Gyro]

What's a "Lair"?

[tallman_house_pictures]

It's a hideout for evil people.

[DEDFX]

lol

[maj_barnes]

Same as an "eivl" people's hideout.

[tallman_house_pictures]

or si it?

[ct_bullet]

or si it? well done