Starting Filming But Need To Learn More

Bent_Barrel · Post by **Bent_Barrel** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 7:01 am

I have started filming a project and have watched as many films like it as I could to learn different things that work and look well together. Ive researched for a while and think Im ready to start. I filmed about an hour of video and about one minute was acceptable to me for use as being pretty good. Id like to get better than mediocre if possible but hey its my very first time filming and editing. I might go as far as throwing in a green screen part lol...

I am looking for somewhere that might be a good reference book or site for things like scene length, fading to scenes, cutting to scenes etc. Does anyone know where i might find something with specifics like that?

foxwood · Post by **foxwood** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 7:04 am

First a few questions, what type of movie is this, and such.

Ok books mean cr**, you can get a film making for dummies or somthing from a library and then just copy the good pages, it all comes down to working with it in the comp to get a feel for it. Many of thsoe have no real set legth, a book would give you somthing but thats all bullshit, don't follow what they say it stifles creativity. But they are good for vocabulary, and door stops.

Bent_Barrel · Post by **Bent_Barrel** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 7:55 am

Its somewhere between a documentary, a how to, and an adventure I suppose. Nothing like anything that I know of off the top of my noggin but why not do it anyway? Basically Im curious about how long to fade in and out from black outs or tranformations between scenes etc. Ok, like,

man is rolling about on fire from a distance

he stops and looks at something interesting in the distance (close up)

cuts to what the interest holding subject is

What are some options to go to the next sequence or scene etc. I could simply cut and wait for 2 seconds of black to fade into the next scene or something. These are the things Im looking for...

How many 5 second scenes in a row is too much etc. Im new and think that I need some kind of guidlines to start with. After all, "you cannot have "no" style without having all style"

xander · Post by **xander** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:06 am

if your gonna go from a man looking, to the object hes looking at, i would say a fade is unnessesary - just use a straight cut!

90% of all the fancy transistions are never actually used in professioanl productions unless they convey a specific meaning.

If you watch any news reel or film, they will use nearly all straight cuts.

If you take star wars as one of the exceptions, it uses fades to black to create suspense, and a lot of wipes in different directions which most films dont use, but these can follow the motion on the screen, like a ship flying from left to right, and they can also help to clearly identify that a transition is being made between two vastly different locations e.g two different planets.

As for using many 5 sec, shots after each other ... there is no set limit - be creative!

In fact newxt time you are watching adverts(commercials) on TV, just count the number of shots; you will usually see that a 30sec advert is made up of around 10-20 very short shots.

Also sequences of short shots in action flicks portray the sense of action!

[Edited on 26-11-2003 by xander]

foxwood · Post by **foxwood** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 2:27 pm

when it comes to these things there is no set time, it is as long as feels right. It is diffrent for the picture and the sequence. You could need a long fade a fast fade, a fade through black, or just a cut.

Just watch a few movies with a stop watch. Watch a scene and stop and start the stop watch each time there is a cut. Then watch it again and look at the transitions.

Bent_Barrel · Post by **Bent_Barrel** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 9:51 pm

I guess I'll just have to play around to find my own style huh? Or pic a particular movie/production and mimic those that I like... Now that thats taken care of, who knows the best place to get 1200 lb grizzly bears really cheap? We all know how no budget goes...

foxwood · Post by **foxwood** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:11 pm

Don't copy a persons style just go out and find your own, it will come out as you work and you won't have to think about it, in the way of "is this my style?" If you have to do that then its not your style.

death to traitors · Post by **death to traitors** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:37 pm

i say copy the f*ck out of other peoples styles! Imatating other peoples film styles will only make you more knowledgable. lets say for example you copy Martin Scorsese then Robert Zemeckis then Andy Wachowski and lets just throw in the Farrelly bros. you have a background in a s*** load of films! you will have an assload of styles to combine to form your own creation. i am willing to bet all directors watch and learn from other directors films. ideas are sprouted from other ideas not from you sitting in your room filming the same sh*t over and over.

foxwood · Post by **foxwood** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:39 pm

but if you start copying styles then you won't think in a good way, what you want to do is as your watching movies you take what is cool. Do you think Scorsese copyed somebodys style? or Spellburg, or Terenteno, ok well he does that in a strange way, or what about hitchcock? So just shoot and all the stuff that you have seen will come out in your stlye.

SgtPadrino · Post by **SgtPadrino** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:12 pm

Bent_Barrel: you are analyzing s*** WAY too much. You're trying to learn every little thing just by books and an online forum, and believe me, that spells disaster for any of your future films. You gotta do what YOU think will look best. You copy other people's styles and you're going to have one cheap a** tacky looking film. YOU gotta invision and do what YOU want, don't try and get everything including style from everybody else. The only true knowledge comes from field experience. Once you start filming and editing, you'll know what to do.

Grant · Post by **Grant** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 12:00 am

get out there, read as much as you can, watch as much as you can and talk to as many people as you can, then........grab a camera and start filming, learn from your mistakes and victories and develop your own style

Jass Films · Post by **Jass Films** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 11:24 am

read this

Tips for film making

You don't have to follow them, but it would be a good idea to think about following them. These are things that have been learnt without film making.

Raptor · Post by **Raptor** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:04 pm

You need to lean a few things from books... such as jump-cuts and why to avoid them, that way you know when to use the occasional jump for effect, how long is the minimum time it takes an average human to absorb a scene, in the news biz we figure a minimum of 10 seconds, 12-15 is better if it is a complex scene or a major hook in the story. Other things we've discussed here, such as the 180 deg rule.. what's a cutaway, why use a cutaway, how to use a cutaway.... Take basic rules like these, and then adapt to your own project. Jump cuts can quickly become annoying to the audience, but also tend to add a level of emotional turmoil to a scene, if used sparingly, a violation of the 180 deg rule can introduce a new characters perspective in the first person, but again must be used sparingly and must be obvious, bring the new character in on the next scene. If we look at anyone's directorial or editorial syle, we'll see it is simply a use of a combination of all these basic building blocks...

foxwood · Post by **foxwood** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 4:18 pm

ya learn the basic rules so you can break them styleisticly and not out of ignerance.

Jass Films · Post by **Jass Films** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 11:48 pm

Just remember that you'll learn more as you make more films. You tend to learn from your mistakes. So the more experience you get, the better you get.

Grant · Post by **Grant** » Fri Nov 28, 2003 12:34 am

just remember to develop "YOUR" style and not someone elses

foxwood · Post by **foxwood** » Fri Nov 28, 2003 1:19 am

I've found you don't have to develupe stlye you have it, and the more you make the more it comes out.

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 2:03 am

Well said, Grant (and foxwood). Even simply grabbing the camera and running off to the beach can further develop your skills. Good filmmaking is structured upon experience, not by studying book after book. And remember, if you need a good tip or suggestion on something, just drop a line at MattHawkins Online!

foxwood · Post by **foxwood** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 5:05 am

While i was saving money or waiting for days when I could film I would read a few books, they are not total bunk, just never put all your fath in them, they are a welth of terms, and things that can be used later on. Thats where I learned things like the rule of 180, and lens types and such, all technical things, that is what they are good for.

Bent_Barrel · Post by **Bent_Barrel** » Mon Dec 01, 2003 7:13 am

I went to a Thanksgiving party in LA this last week and talked to a few film people and they and you all say the same thing. I've already filmed a few hours of video for this newest one and I came up with about 3 minutes that I liked. I can tell that I already and learning a lot about what I want to convey and how. I was just getting tired of the same cuts to another scene. Ive been watching as many different videos as I can get my hands on that are along the lines of what I want to do.