best way to create a smoke filled area/ feild

ct_bullet · Post by **ct_bullet** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:29 pm

i am making awar film and i'm planning on creating a smokey battlefield in which the main characters walk through at the end of my film, but i'm not too sure how to do this as the smoke may just drift away, i ahve purchased some small smoke bombs whihc when lit smoke for 20s but does anyone know any better ways???

Adam · Post by **Adam** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:08 pm

burning rubber (car tyres) create lots of smoke but watch out for you actors as too much could be toxic.

ct_bullet · Post by **ct_bullet** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:15 pm

gr8 thnx

october · Post by **october** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:02 am

if you burn a tire, it will be really hard or near impossible to put out, they are toxic, and... also i dont see any reason for anyone to be burning tires... it just doesnt sound like a good idea...
buy or rent some fog machines...

I3lade203 · Post by **I3lade203** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:04 am

Fog machines won't work outdoors really. Try some alterntives such as filming on a foggy day. I know you might say you don't want to wait, but if you don't want to burn anything or waste money on a fog machine that will only work indoors..

santi · Post by **santi** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:57 am

Mix potassium nitrate (KNO3) with sugar. Outdoor only. Be carefull- it makes high temperature (it could melt through the tin can). When I was a kid it was my favourite toy (and shooting with calcium carbide

)

cwf · Post by **cwf** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:05 am

i was wondering how to create the effect of like a haze in a room, i mean like the effect where the torch beam can be seen. The potassium nitrate causes too much smoke which is clearly vissible, I want it to be qucte transparent but still spooky. any ideas?

UFProductions · Post by **UFProductions** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:09 am

Fog machine is perfect for that, hit the room with fog, let it disperse evenly for ten minutes, and film away. I3lade is right about fog machines outdoors though, unless there is no air movement whatsoever, you'll get about five seconds of usable fog. You could use a fog chiller, search the web for various designs, but even then the fog won't last long. I would go with the KNO3+Sugar recipie that Santi suggested.

Meade87 · Post by **Meade87** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:20 am

cwf >> you could try using stock smoke, or creating smoke in after effects. The stock smoke on detonation films if placed over footage that is lit properly will have a nice effect that looks pretty real. I did it once I took it out with luminance in premier 6.0 worked pretty well. and is dry ice no good for outdoor seens? I mean I'm not sure if he wants the smoke to stay low or mix high. I am certain Dry Ice would stay pretty low cause it is cold while KNO3+Sugar would go up. But w.e.

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:46 am

Hey! You guys are wrong!

How many of you have actually TRIED using a fog machine outside? I bought a $20 one from Party City and it works absolutely perfect! Even with some wind, you can then aim it the way you want! Needless to say I spent many hours outside with it... I simulated the grass on fire and it works pretty well. It looks like smoke and lasts a long time. In no wind, the fog stays there practically forever!

I thought the same before, but it's amazing how well a fog machine actually works outside. Buy two machines and you could easily simulate a battle sequence!

UFProductions · Post by **UFProductions** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:47 am

Dry ice simply does not produce enough volume, that's where a fog machine with an attached chiller really shines. Lots of fog, but it's cold, so it hugs the ground. The problem with using stock footage is the flashlight beams won't illuminate the fog like cwf mentioned in his post.

dno · Post by **dno** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:24 am

If it's for short shots, use cigars or cigarettes. They work well indoors. Now I'm not condoning smoking, you don't have to smoke them, but its quite effective.

pdj · Post by **pdj** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:43 am

I used this method once...and it worked very well. Get a heap of ping pong balls...squash them, put them in a large square piece of foil [you know the stuff in the kitchen], then bring in all four corners of the foil to make a pyramid like shape...put your arm in the middle of it so your left with a tube and all the ping pong balls underneath...have a small fire ready-put the foil bag on top for a few seconds...the smoke should start coming out of the hole you leftÃ¢â‚¬Â¦its a little less toxic- but STILL toxic. Set up a few of those, should do the trick.

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:25 am

...and that is quite very much illegal.

dno wrote:If it's for short shots, use cigars or cigarettes. They work well indoors. Now I'm not condoning smoking, you don't have to smoke them, but its quite effective.

Wow, that would have to be a lot of stogies!

pdj · Post by **pdj** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:44 pm

Epsilon wrote:...and that is quite very much illegal.

Your grammar should be made illegal... Now Epson, you were so quick to jump and say what I suggested is illegal. I think you should wipe your glasses and read up. There was a suggestion made to burn rubber car tyres. You followed with a reply about your fog machine expertise blab la bla. You failed to mention how illegal, wrong, toxic or whatever else you could bother to come up with burning tyres is. Get off your high horse. What? Next you're gonna tell me that cars are illegal too.

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:12 pm

What in the lord's name are you talking about? There is nothing wrong with my grammar... find me one English grammar book that proves it grammatically incorrect!

Well if it makes you happy: Burning tires is illegal, Adam.

Now... maybe you should read up and understand that there isn't only one way to burn a tire. "BURNING RUBBER" refers to clutching the brakes and kick the gas as so the tires skid on the ground creating tons of smoke.

Is that the response you wanted, pdj? Also, it's Epsilon, not Epson... I am not a salt.

By the way it is illegal to drive a car in Catalina.

LucII · Post by **LucII** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:05 pm

I would go with fog made by mother nature.. You may have to wait a while but atleast you get 100% real fog, non toxic and totally legal!

Epsilon wrote: Also, it's Epsilon, not Epson... I am not a salt.

That had me laughing for ten minutes!

october · Post by **october** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:36 pm

is'nt it epsom salts?

UFProductions · Post by **UFProductions** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:56 am

Epsilon wrote: Also, it's Epsilon, not Epson... I am not a salt.

Nor are you a printer company. I don't have experience with multiple fog machines, so I can't totally discount what your saying. You are correct that a fog machine will work well outside; in very, very still air. I have used it outside, to great effect in brief scenes, but I had to wait for an absolutley dead calm day to get it to work, if I had had a rushed schedual I would've been screwed, I find that even the slightest breeze sweeps the area clear of fog instantly. But coming to think of it, any scene that involves fog would have to be set on a calm day, so I guess you'll just have to wait it out!

pdj · Post by **pdj** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:13 am

You're so boring Epson-get over yourself you goody goody...anyway, give the ping pong ball trick a try as it "is quite very much" effective!

I3lade203 · Post by **I3lade203** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:16 am

Effective and illegal. Don't want to get into any trouble do you! Was experimenting with some stuff few days ago, having 2 or 3 fog/smoke machines outdoors on a non windy day can be very effective, expescially with proper lighting. I recommend you experiment before the actaul shooting of the thing, try different things, see what works best. Then, when the time comes you'll just have to worry about the actors having memorized their lines!

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:26 am

pdj wrote:You're so boring Epson-get over yourself you goody goody...

You're so silly p b & j-get over yourself you dummy dummy...

GOOD GOD!!! Do you know how many grammatical error are in your post!?!?!?!? Somebody call the Grammar Police!!!

Many, many people get jailed for burning plastics here. I guess you could attempt it as your own risk... but don't claim you were not forewarned.

october wrote:is'nt it epsom salts?

Ah yes, that it is!

pdj · Post by **pdj** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:53 am

There's no prize for second best chump. Be original for once!

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:38 am

But I'm not the dummy that's never heard of burning rubber before!

Syras · Post by **Syras** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:37 am

ok heres a few ideas: http://www.dpxpaint.com/modules.php?op= ... le&sid=120

next on the agenda is the smoke machine dispute. I recently used a smoke machine for a swat team raid (some of u may have seen a topic a while back about a film called Spent Casings, its nearly done i assure u). We had all the doors and windows closed and were in a room approximately 4m by 8m and had a fair bit of difficulty maintaining a constant amount of smoke. We found a strong surge of smoke (our machine had a burst button) just before the call for action was effective. also for smoke at ground level try putting a piece of card board over the outlet angled downward, this makes the smoke shoot down to the ground and it lingers for a few minutes. I wouldnt suggest a smoke machine for outside, your best bet is probably the potassium nitrate because they produce a smoke almost identical to what you would experience in a realistic battlefield situation.

Finally is the ping pong ball idea. I cannot stress how much u should not do this. We tried this (among many) ideas when we were researching the SWAT team entry. The fumes are highly toxic and create a bad smell. One of our crew's father is an industrial chemist and we asked him what the smoke would be. Apparently its roughly the equivalent of sucking on a car exhaust, though with quite a few other nasty chemicals in it. For your sake, dont do it.

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