Copyright Questions

justsomeguy · Post by **justsomeguy** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:04 pm

for some of the music for a film im gonna have my sister play trumpet, but im looking for drum beats and ai know you can get them from progs and stuff but i was wondering if you could take like 10 secs or less (but more would be nice

) from a song and loop it. would that be violating those stupid copyright laws? and if it does violate it, no ones gonna be all like:" oh that sounds familiar, just like that song we did, lets go sue them" right?

pdj · Post by **pdj** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:11 pm

I don't think it would be a huge issue- just change a few things about the clip and should be ok. I don't think you'll be selling DVDs of this move you're making...

justsomeguy · Post by **justsomeguy** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:24 pm

I don't think you'll be selling DVDs of this move you're making...

no probably not, but i dont really want to do anyhting illegal and have to chagne it/get in trouble for it. i might sell a few but only to people i know most liekly, mostly cuz the films probably gonna suck

pdj · Post by **pdj** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 1:20 am

Well, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that in the states you can use so many seconds of any song without getting in trouble. It's a loophole- I think it may be 10 seconds not sure. Someone else on here may know...

Raptor · Post by **Raptor** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 3:47 am

pdj wrote:Well, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that in the states you can use so many seconds of any song without getting in trouble. It's a loophole- I think it may be 10 seconds not sure. Someone else on here may know...

NO!, any use of any amount of copyrighted material is illegal in the states, 1 second or an hour. ANd make sure the song your sister is playing is original or in the public domain, or you will still be in violation of the publishers copyright on the music....

justsomeguy · Post by **justsomeguy** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 4:56 am

NO!, any use of any amount of copyrighted material is illegal in the states, 1 second or an hour

that sucks, even if its just like a drum beat that no one would notice or care?

ANd make sure the song your sister is playing is original or in the public domain, or you will still be in violation of the publishers copyright on the music....

its gonna be origianl, shes gonna compose it (well actually she doesnt know about any of this but she will)

Raptor · Post by **Raptor** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:22 am

that sucks, even if its just like a drum beat that no one would notice or care?

Technically, yeah. Just build the back beat on a midi synth...

KayBeck · Post by **KayBeck** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:11 pm

Raptor wrote:
pdj wrote:Well, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that in the states you can use so many seconds of any song without getting in trouble. It's a loophole- I think it may be 10 seconds not sure. Someone else on here may know...
NO!, any use of any amount of copyrighted material is illegal in the states, 1 second or an hour. ANd make sure the song your sister is playing is original or in the public domain, or you will still be in violation of the publishers copyright on the music....

To my knowlege, you can use a 30 second clip of copyrighted music. You should be in the clear as long as you don't try to make money from your video.

Raptor · Post by **Raptor** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:52 pm

KayBeck wrote:
Raptor wrote:
pdj wrote:Well, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that in the states you can use so many seconds of any song without getting in trouble. It's a loophole- I think it may be 10 seconds not sure. Someone else on here may know...
NO!, any use of any amount of copyrighted material is illegal in the states, 1 second or an hour. ANd make sure the song your sister is playing is original or in the public domain, or you will still be in violation of the publishers copyright on the music....
To my knowlege, you can use a 30 second clip of copyrighted music. You should be in the clear as long as you don't try to make money from your video.

Absolutely WORNG! At leat in the US, you can use NO copyrighted matrerial, whether you sell it or not.. read the copyright regulations for your country, but in the US, you can't use any...

reflexive_cinematics · Tue Apr 13, 2004 9:27 pm

Absolutely WORNG! At leat in the US, you can use NO copyrighted matrerial, whether you sell it or not.. read the copyright regulations for your country, but in the US, you can't use any...

You can use an entire SONG if you wanted to , AS LONG AS, you are not profiting from using the music or intellectual property, or you are not infringing on the artists ability to collect their $$ for the music/ song whatever, OR you don't try to claim it as your own.

So if you were doing a music video or even a mock movie, you can use their stuff, just so as you give the creator proper credit and don't plan to sell it.

KayBeck · Post by **KayBeck** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 9:28 pm

Here's what the U.S. copyright laws state:

Sec. 107. - Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include -

(1)

the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

(2)

the nature of the copyrighted work;

(3)

the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

(4)

the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

Now as long as you can shoehorn your picture into one of the fair use categories, then you're in the clear.

Your chances of actually drawing the attention of someone who wouldn't like you using their work is slim, as I know of a few people in Hollywood who use copyrighted music in their indy projects.

Use your own discretion I suppose.

KayBeck · Post by **KayBeck** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 9:47 pm

I should also mention that there are a lot of sites on the web which have music that is free to use.

foxwood · Post by **foxwood** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 5:20 pm

Just try your best to find non copy writen stuff.

Raptor · Post by **Raptor** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 9:02 pm

You can use an entire SONG if you wanted to , AS LONG AS, you are not profiting from using the music or intellectual property, or you are not infringing on the artists ability to collect their $$ for the music/ song whatever, OR you don't try to claim it as your own.

So if you were doing a music video or even a mock movie, you can use their stuff, just so as you give the creator proper credit and don't plan to sell it.

Where did you come up witht his... this is absolutely incorrect. Copyright laws are not about money, they are about allowing the copyright holder to control what is done with his works, and to charge whatever price he feels is acceptable for ANY use of his work. You are violating at least four different rights of the owner - performance, synchronization, reproduction, and creating a derivative work. It has NOTHING to do with profit, giving them credit or anything else. I suggest if you want to labor under these beliefs you consult an IP attorney, the $50.00 you spend there will be a LOT cheaper than defending your use in an infringement case.

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright

Two things about fair use - fair use is not a license to infringe, it is a defense to infringement. If you select to use copyrighted material, and are sued, you cannot just claim fair use and it all will go away. You must still go to court, and convince the judge that your use falls within the guidelines of fair use. Remember, in order for the copright holder to seek damages from anyone, they must prove that they have 'diligently' pursued all infringements of which they are aware. So even tho they may not be able to collect big damages from you, if they don't go after all instances of infringement, they will not be able to sue the infringers with deep pockets. They also must pursue infringements in order to prevent the work from falling into the public domain.

Sec. 1101. - Unauthorized fixation and trafficking in sound recordings and music videos

(a) Unauthorized Acts. -

Anyone who, without the consent of the performer or performers involved -

(1)

fixes the sounds or sounds and images of a live musical performance in a copy or phonorecord, or reproduces copies or phonorecords of such a performance from an unauthorized fixation,

(2)

transmits or otherwise communicates to the public the sounds or sounds and images of a live musical performance, or

(3)

distributes or offers to distribute, sells or offers to sell, rents or offers to rent, or traffics in any copy or phonorecord fixed as described in paragraph (1), regardless of whether the fixations occurred in the United States,

shall be subject to the remedies provided in sections 502 through 505, to the same extent as an infringer of copyright.

And these are the specific rights.....

Sec. 106. - Exclusive rights in copyrighted works

Subject to sections 107 through 121, the owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following:

(1)

to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords;

(2)

to prepare derivative works based upon the copyrighted work;

(3)

to distribute copies or phonorecords of the copyrighted work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending;

(4)

in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and motion pictures and other audiovisual works, to perform the copyrighted work publicly;

(5)

in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and pictorial, graphic, or sculptural works, including the individual images of a motion picture or other audiovisual work, to display the copyrighted work publicly; and

(6)

in the case of sound recordings, to perform the copyrighted work publicly by means of a digital audio transmission

pdj · Post by **pdj** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:00 am

You can't argue with the facts jack!

KayBeck · Post by **KayBeck** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 11:03 pm

Raptor wrote:Copyright laws are not about money, they are about allowing the copyright holder to control what is done with his works, and to charge whatever price he feels is acceptable for ANY use of his work.

I think the laws USED to be to protect the owner of the copyright, but it's ALL about the money now.

Raptor · Post by **Raptor** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 12:15 am

KayBeck wrote:
Raptor wrote:Copyright laws are not about money, they are about allowing the copyright holder to control what is done with his works, and to charge whatever price he feels is acceptable for ANY use of his work.
I think the laws USED to be to protect the owner of the copyright, but it's ALL about the money now.

No doubt about that, but the laws are still the same, tho some of the new ones are a real pain in the neck. Understand, I don't necessarily AGREE with everything done in the name of copyright, but until the laws change, these are the ones we have to live with

Chris_film · Post by **Chris_film** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 6:50 pm

would using sound effects be copright enfringment?

Raptor · Post by **Raptor** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 7:33 pm

Unless you created them, or they were license free, if pulled from another source such as a movie or video game, then yes, using the effects would be infringement. There are however LOTS of sites with free sound efects. Just make sure you read the license for what are acceptable uses.

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 6:19 am

If you want to use a copyrighted material, get written consent from the owner. Whether it be an individual or Sony, the law still applies.

Listen to Raptor, guys! He is right!

KayBeck · Post by **KayBeck** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 10:54 pm

Chris_film wrote:would using sound effects be copright enfringment?

Yes, but the odds of you getting busted for using it in your case are slim to none.

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » Sat May 01, 2004 12:18 am

However, if you try to sell your product including them, you probably will get busted.

KayBeck · Post by **KayBeck** » Sat May 01, 2004 12:47 am

Absolutely. The Artie Shlemp Show is going to be using a LOT of copywritten music, but if I decide to sell DVD's of the show, I'm going to take it ALL out and replace it with non-lawsuit material.

Raptor · Post by **Raptor** » Mon May 03, 2004 12:25 pm

KayBeck wrote:Absolutely. The Artie Shlemp Show is going to be using a LOT of copywritten music, but if I decide to sell DVD's of the show, I'm going to take it ALL out and replace it with non-lawsuit material.

Not just sell, the law says "publish" and "distribute" and "display". It makes no distinction for selling or making money. Posting to the internet, distributing copies to friends, showing it at a coffee house, theatre or festival is also illegal. Remember, in order to be able to prevent their material from falling into the public domain and to be able to recover monetary damages from infringements, the copyright owner is required by law to defend their copyright in ANY instance of infringement.
BTW the term is "copyrighted" ( the right to make copies) not "copywritten"