Mac's are cheap imitations of Windows, if Mac's were honestly so good, why is Windows the largest computer operating system?mac is better for video production
wut editor do u use?
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to quote Dwight... FALSE!rhys wrote:Mac's are cheap imitations of Windows, if Mac's were honestly so good, why is Windows the largest computer operating system?mac is better for video production
Mac's have a streamlined vector based rendering... which means crazy fast rendering times compared to windows... Macs are the creative arts computer
windows is so large because people wanted a simpler interface.... for business
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The original versions of Premiere weren't that different from what final cut is now...just more features added and better performance, workflow is the same. The only difference was the a/b tracks + transition/effects track in-between. Macromedia was making final cut to compete against premiere at the time...then apple bought it before it was released. Prior to that, apple had been releasing Diva's (avid backwards, hmm?) Videoshop with all their "A/V" computers like the Quadra 850 AV...which had video and audio in and out on a daughter card plugged right into the MoBo with holes cut into the case for the ports.
Videoshop operated just like final cut does now. I still have a copy of that floating around somewhere...it was a great program, but runs under os7 - os9 only (think win3.1 - win95). IIRC, Diva was purchased and turned into AVID in the mid-late 90's becoming married to hardware by that company and targeting the high-end professional market.
Videoshop operated just like final cut does now. I still have a copy of that floating around somewhere...it was a great program, but runs under os7 - os9 only (think win3.1 - win95). IIRC, Diva was purchased and turned into AVID in the mid-late 90's becoming married to hardware by that company and targeting the high-end professional market.
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Microsoft is the largest supplier of Operating systems of computers due to a couple of shrewd business moves made when no-one understood the potential of computers. At a time when a large business could only afford one computer due to the overwhelming cost of them. No one saw them as a household item...(I'd have to give up my garage to put that behemoth in). Apple released a little computer (after a narrow miss with HP's rights to Steve Wozniak's design per his employment contract) called the Apple 1. Everything followed from there, including a little startup software company called microsoft.rhys wrote:Mac's are cheap imitations of Windows, if Mac's were honestly so good, why is Windows the largest computer operating system?mac is better for video production
Microsoft was producing BASIC programming language interpreters at the time and found a little program called Q-DOS (quick and dirty operating system) that would make it easier to access the floppy disk and files stored on it. These OS's were abundant by anyone who used computers back then...they were created to make it easier to type things quickly in a less arcane jumble of text. Here's an example from my past ( http://www3.nbnet.nb.ca/mclays/trsdos.html ). I wish they had approached me with $3000 for my dos at the time
![Sad :(](./images/smilies/icon_sad.gif)
With the acquisition of the rights to q-dos, they changed the name to ms-dos and went and talked to IBM. Since IBM was the business machine company that industry purchased machines from, they were going to be what business people purchased at home when they finally came out with the PC, jr. in 1980 (a solid 2 years after apple had introduced the home PC...during which time they had 100% marketshare BTW). MS approached them with a deal to take 3% or some rediculously low percentage of each machine sold. IBM didn't forsee more than 100 units worldwide being sold ever...they were still looking at the corporate space and basing their numbers on what they knew.
MS saw the future and knew that they could leverage their newly acquired operating system into a fortune by taking a small piece of every pie sold. The IBM PC, jr. sold like hotcakes and IBM kicked themselves after seeing how much MS was making with little to no overhead (software is much cheaper to produce than hardware)...and no once IBM clones started being released, since IBM hadn't forseen the need for no-competes at that time, MS was free to sell their DOS to whomever they felt like selling to...eventually PC's were prevalent...based on the fact that businesses used IBM and business people lived under the old phrase, "no one ever got fired for buying IBM." It was ingrained into their subconscious and MS knew that.
MS became as big as they are because people bought IBM with ms-dos, not windows...Windows became prevalent after the macintosh was released because after Bill Gates got a tour of apple and saw the macintosh (they were one of the first developers of macintosh software with msworks), he wanted an operating system as elegant and easy to use as the mac.
PC users were insulting the mac world even then saying that using a mouse and little colored icons was for kids, the machine was a toy...until windows came out and software started being written for windows only leaving dos as something of an afterthought...as they switched over to mice and little colored icons, we macintosh users looked at them and thought "why you little hypocrites..." (this continues today as we are lambasted by windows folks for using macintosh instead of windows...the arguments for which become the best thing MS ever thought of in a year or two - examples: windows media, VBS, CD-ROM, 16-bit sound, >16 colors, mice, windows, icons, foreground multitasking, text to speech, speech based interface, many many more...most MS-"innovations" are years old and passe in the apple world by the time windows users see them).
Since business users were better paid at the time then factory workers and had more incentive to purchase computers for their homes, the PC became the home computer of choice based entirely on the business mindset of that demographic. The cheap PC clones took the rest of the marketshare from apple and ate into IBM's marketshare horribly...no one buys IBM pc's anymore...Apple has higher PC marketshare then they do currently.
Since Most home desktop's had PC's now and MS was only beholden to IBM for MS-Dos...windows was available for them to sell to existing PC users at home...windows slowly became the standard on the desktop as people got introduced to the friendlier interface (Geeks were taking up less and less of that marketshare as more PC's moved into homes, they suddenly had to know how to fix windows to support the end-users).
MS hasn't had an original piece of software since they opened their doors...they're great at business though and that is why windows has more marketshare than the macintosh...until you look at the professional creative sector...there, apple's and unix abound and have more marketshare than PC's.
You can fact check this all you want, it's well documented around the web and in a few documentary movies as well. The one thing you can't do is argue history...especially with someone who was there...which I was. It was fun to watch. Being there and predating both windows and the machintosh and having written my own DOS back in the day, my take is that all computers do one thing...take information from some form of storage based on input from the user and present it on some form of display...computers are all the same, stop being so closed minded!
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I am here to save the day! I use Vegas 7.0 for my home use (which is mostly) and Final Cut Pro at my intern thing. I also know how to use Adobe Premiere and with my experience, it is the worst I have used. Vegas is extremely user friendly and I like that a lot and since it's a really new program it doesn't have much attentions. Most people regard it as a sissy editing program but trust me, it's not.Vor wrote:No Sony Vegas users?
its not even like i hate macs cos they're sh*t computers, its cos how much people go on trying to convince everyone that they are better than windows computers. has anyone else noticed that every time mac is mentioned even in the smallest form, every single person who uses a mac starts a rant about them?
has anyone ever heard of someone mentioning a windows computer and everyone in the room going "OMG I USE A WINDOWS COMPUTER TOO! ARNT THEY GREAT!?", and they dont-not say that cos windows arnt great, its cos computers are just a thing lots of us use every day. so get over it, wow, its a computer you like using. can you shut the fu*k up now?
you like macs. whatever. your loss. stop trying to force it down my throat like its a religion.
has anyone ever heard of someone mentioning a windows computer and everyone in the room going "OMG I USE A WINDOWS COMPUTER TOO! ARNT THEY GREAT!?", and they dont-not say that cos windows arnt great, its cos computers are just a thing lots of us use every day. so get over it, wow, its a computer you like using. can you shut the fu*k up now?
you like macs. whatever. your loss. stop trying to force it down my throat like its a religion.
I like you, when the world is mine, your death shall be quick and painless.
No, it's to counter act the "macs suck attitude" that we're always confronted with. Especially when confronted with mis-information. At no point in time did I say that windows sucks, nor claim that the mac was a better computer, I was merely stating facts. computers are just a bunch of switches that make lights blink...anything above that interpretation is opinion...I don't indulge in opinion unless asked to.
But I do strongly believe in the free flow on accurate information, and since there was inaccurate information presented...and a question posed directly by rhys, I answered with an accurate run down of the history. Not once proselytizing the macintosh, simply solid information so the arguments could be more informed in the future.
The statement was made that the macs were imitations of windows, this is false...per the history presented above, which I watched happen in the 80's. The question was why are windows more prevalent, I answered that in the history as well.
I write alot generally, do a search for my name in google (knightly or "cole McDonald") and you will find me quite linguistically effusive. In a society where brevity is now the norm, it makes me seem as if I rant constantly, I just like to present total information without leaving anything out. If it's too much to read, don't...but don't then make the assumption that I'm ranting based on word count.
But I do strongly believe in the free flow on accurate information, and since there was inaccurate information presented...and a question posed directly by rhys, I answered with an accurate run down of the history. Not once proselytizing the macintosh, simply solid information so the arguments could be more informed in the future.
The statement was made that the macs were imitations of windows, this is false...per the history presented above, which I watched happen in the 80's. The question was why are windows more prevalent, I answered that in the history as well.
I write alot generally, do a search for my name in google (knightly or "cole McDonald") and you will find me quite linguistically effusive. In a society where brevity is now the norm, it makes me seem as if I rant constantly, I just like to present total information without leaving anything out. If it's too much to read, don't...but don't then make the assumption that I'm ranting based on word count.
Low/No budget cinema that looks like a million Bucks!
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If you'd like to move this conversation to the mac vs. PC thread, I'd be happy to continue discussing this with you, as it is, it's taken over the thread about editors, which started with an honest question, then moved to aggression due to lack of attention on the original posters part by some of the board members, then to a mac vs. PC discussion based on the fact that someone said macs suck for inaccurate reasons, which I corrected and now you're freaking about my being an apple shill which I will gladly be if you'd like, but I was presenting more of a history based on my experience.
If everyone had stuck to the original question, it wouldn't have gone off topic.
back to the topic:
I'd love to try vegas sometime...lots of people like it...and I don't discriminate between the platforms. I still prefer my trs-80 to all the new cr** that's become bloated and inefficient. My DOS took up about 150k and started instantly when a disk was inserted. No boot time or bells and whistles. unfortunately, there's no final cut for TRS-80![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
How does vegas differ from FCP?
If everyone had stuck to the original question, it wouldn't have gone off topic.
back to the topic:
I'd love to try vegas sometime...lots of people like it...and I don't discriminate between the platforms. I still prefer my trs-80 to all the new cr** that's become bloated and inefficient. My DOS took up about 150k and started instantly when a disk was inserted. No boot time or bells and whistles. unfortunately, there's no final cut for TRS-80
![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
How does vegas differ from FCP?
Low/No budget cinema that looks like a million Bucks!
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Ah, i stand corrected. If all macs can use windows programs and adaptions i would most definitely switch, because they are cheaper sometimes too. Can all macs run windows programs? If you have a Mac computer, can you still install windows?Mac's have a streamlined vector based rendering... which means crazy fast rendering times compared to windows... Macs are the creative arts computer
Hide or fight for your life?
I use it a lot. Not for editing but I usually grade and deinterlace in Vegas before editing in Premiere (just force of habit really)Vor wrote:No Sony Vegas users?
I also use it for rendering to different formats (like Quicktime or PAL-NTSC-PAL for our John Bunnell sketch)
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loFABl-1Zcw]THE SALESMAN - YouTube[/url]
Yes.rhys wrote:Can all macs run windows programs? If you have a Mac computer, can you still install windows?
I use FCP 5, and it's great. Haven't ever used Vegas or Premiere though, so I won't say that it's better than them. Actually, they shouldn't even be compared. One is for Mac, and the others are for Windows. They all do the same thing.
Any intel based mac (all new ones) will run windows natively. This will allow you to switch between the mac for what you need there and windows for what you need there. We tested an iBook (the lower end of the laptop spectrum) with the game "fear". with the settings cranked, we could get about 5fps, with the settings optimized for that machine, we were getting 30fps+ The performance is everything I'd been looking for in a windows on my mac solution, but hadn't currently found in the emulators...this solution (boot camp) is not an emulator, it's windows running on an intel platform...no software between, just a bootloader.rhys wrote:Ah, i stand corrected. If all macs can use windows programs and adaptions i would most definitely switch, because they are cheaper sometimes too. Can all macs run windows programs? If you have a Mac computer, can you still install windows?Mac's have a streamlined vector based rendering... which means crazy fast rendering times compared to windows... Macs are the creative arts computer
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