The Fag Out

[Kentertainment]

Guns are good...Guns are bad. This is sounding like a political debate and as far as I remember, political and religious debates are frowned upon on this FILMMAKING FORUM!

[Jperson]

Quite frankly I read half of that forum and stopped half way through or something. Racial abuse and ridicoulous arguments for guns? And waht the hell is do you want redcoats invading all about bulldog? What on earth? Have you ever even looked or glanced at the news yet? Heard about the end of the British Empire? I think that is just a stupid comment. I'm not going to say anymore, 'cause it will fuel more of a fight...but people can we have a little sanity? There are a few simple facts:

1) Guns are bad. FULL STOP.
2) Violence and rascisim and all that are also bad (the opposite to good).
3) Political debates are allowed in the rules, you can not use stats to prove 95% of things, and having a gun, just like having a knife in the U.K. does more bad than good, even if you have it to be 'cool' or just protect yourself, if someone mugs you and you have a knife on you, they'll simply take it out and part you from your life! It can't be that different with guns (obviously not in exactly the same way, but them not offereing any protection, infact offering quite the opposite!).
4) This is a film site, so I'm gonna shut up and stop waffling. Poor old Sgt.Padrino's thread has been turned into a quagmire of a debate.

P.S. I waffled too much there and got into the debate too much...soryy bout that

[wildstorm]

P.S. I waffled too much there and got into the debate too much...soryy bout that

Waffled? Thats like food isn't it? lol

[maj_barnes]

Quite frankly I read half of that forum and stopped half way through or something.

There's your problem.

[Zacatac927]

waffle.... heh, good word choice Jperson, im going to go make some waffles now

sorry
i just needed to add some humor

[Jperson]

lol..yeah..waffle...reminds me strongly of Ornsack, lol. And when I said I read half of the forum I'm afraid I lied . Cause I read the first page, and it said it was 2 pages long, so I thought I'd read half of it, but really I'd read most of it, cause there was only one post on the second page.

[maj_barnes]

cause there was only one post on the second page

Sounds like something I'd do.

Padrino, have you ever fired that revolver at night? There has to be a big flash with that thing.

[aaronv2]

Who the hell was that moron that got offended at my use of the word nigger?

What an imbicillic way of looking at it... how come when a white man says nigger to justify the stupid logic of a redneck, in the negative context might i add. is it still offensive even tho were on the same side? Why is it you get offended at a white man saying nigger yet use it as a term of endeerment when another black man calls you nigger? This isnt a personal comment on you its an assumption i get from the countless other blacks that do it.... Here in australia the aboriginal people use it for each other too even tho its totally contradictory.

Its the same with faggot. Your just choosing to get offended when and how you want instead of realising your offence to the word causes the strife. Because you have no idea what context or why it was used. You just jump to offense because you see the word or hear it. The same as you do when you see a nazi symbol when really it was originally used as a 4 point star that means good luck.

If it was used in an offensive way i would have directed it at someone... if anything that was aimed at saterizing redneck americans? you missed the whole point and got offended because your "the opressed black man" even tho your race has taken all the opressions and spun them around.

Nigger is a term of endeerment, Rap is now cool, Its cool to be a thug, Its cool to be a pimp, its cool to call a women a ho... and im not stereotyping you get it all from the music. You have to look really hard for a real rap artist rapping about anything worthwhile. Its the underground and all that covers the mainstream is the stereotype perpetuated by the pimp thug gangsta rappers. Its harder for white rappers because if they even tip toe into the stereotype thats been made they get called fakesters and what not so they rap about contrevercial issues to get the same offence generated by the music genre.

I just hate it how you take offense to one word yet you can use the word motherfucker every third word in a rap song. Your being oversensitive to a word that doesnt even carry the same connotations as when it was originally used.

To take an australian sentance "Grab a brain, dickhead." Australians say dickhead alot so I hope thats not offensive too...

[wildstorm]

Who the hell was that moron that got offended at my use of the word nigger?

What an imbicillic way of looking at it... how come when a white man says nigger to justify the stupid logic of a redneck, in the negative context might i add. is it still offensive even tho were on the same side? Why is it you get offended at a white man saying nigger yet use it as a term of endeerment when another black man calls you nigger? This isnt a personal comment on you its an assumption i get from the countless other blacks that do it.... Here in australia the aboriginal people use it for each other too even tho its totally contradictory.

Its the same with faggot. Your just choosing to get offended when and how you want instead of realising your offence to the word causes the strife. Because you have no idea what context or why it was used. You just jump to offense because you see the word or hear it. The same as you do when you see a nazi symbol when really it was originally used as a 4 point star that means good luck.

If it was used in an offensive way i would have directed it at someone... if anything that was aimed at saterizing redneck americans? you missed the whole point and got offended because your "the opressed black man" even tho your race has taken all the opressions and spun them around.

Nigger is a term of endeerment, Rap is now cool, Its cool to be a thug, Its cool to be a pimp, its cool to call a women a ho... and im not stereotyping you get it all from the music. You have to look really hard for a real rap artist rapping about anything worthwhile. Its the underground and all that covers the mainstream is the stereotype perpetuated by the pimp thug gangsta rappers. Its harder for white rappers because if they even tip toe into the stereotype thats been made they get called fakesters and what not so they rap about contrevercial issues to get the same offence generated by the music genre.

I just hate it how you take offense to one word yet you can use the word motherfucker every third word in a rap song. Your being oversensitive to a word that doesnt even carry the same connotations as when it was originally used.

To take an australian sentance "Grab a brain, dickhead." Australians say dickhead alot so I hope thats not offensive too...

Look! you started this cr** aaron!! And you knew that it would stir the pot but you went ahead and posted your "feelings" anyways. Why the f*** do you do that! I expect all this "drama" coming from a girl. Not a man. Yet your causing "drama" again. Didn't I f*** say stop this argument and stay on topic?? Are you too damn dumb to read. There are rules to this forum and everybody is to follow them. Everybody else has followed them, why can't you? How the frick is the above post in "quotes" or the other bullshit you posted in this thread have anything to do with the short clip that SgtPadrino posted??

[aaronv2]

It meant to be a discussion... i share ideas and themes you retort it becomes intellectually philisophical. If people like you take offence and feel the need to swear and get angry im just going to ignore it... If these issues didnt create an emotional response then they wouldnt be issues.

Your just being suckered in and letting it affect you emotionally instead of providing me with information to the contrary of what my views are. What has anything you just said have to do with the issue i was discussing? Theres no mention of racism censorship or what not. Your emotional response is as predictable as it is passionate. People like you are the reason they invented current affair programs.

It just seems like when i raise an issue and present my side you guys just take offence and release a barrage of angry comments instead of showing your true maturity and explaining your side. so feel free to get angry and miss the point it doesnt matter to me... but when you say your side of the argument, instead of just creating argument... ill listen.

You cant hurt my feelings its the friggin internet, the sheer idea is laughable. So instead of making this personal try to keep it ideological huh?

so do you have a retort to any of the issues in here or are you just going to reinforce your hatred of someone who voices their opinion?

[aaronv2]

Okay now here is something cool... LOOK! a rap song with a message!!!



About issues, contravercial, but wait.... how many times was nigger mentioned? He called Bush a nigger? Is that okay cause hes white and a black dude is calling him a nigger? So a rapper can say nigger as much as he likes... how appropriate for the "opressed"

[wildstorm]

It meant to be a discussion... i share ideas and themes you retort it becomes intellectually philisophical. If people like you take offence and feel the need to swear and get angry im just going to ignore it... If these issues didnt create an emotional response then they wouldnt be issues.

Your just being suckered in and letting it affect you emotionally instead of providing me with information to the contrary of what my views are. What has anything you just said have to do with the issue i was discussing? Theres no mention of racism censorship or what not. Your emotional response is as predictable as it is passionate. People like you are the reason they invented current affair programs.

It just seems like when i raise an issue and present my side you guys just take offence and release a barrage of angry comments instead of showing your true maturity and explaining your side. so feel free to get angry and miss the point it doesnt matter to me... but when you say your side of the argument, instead of just creating argument... ill listen.

You cant hurt my feelings its the friggin internet, the sheer idea is laughable. So instead of making this personal try to keep it ideological huh?

so do you have a retort to any of the issues in here or are you just going to reinforce your hatred of someone who voices their opinion?

I don't have a retort to the issues you have presented in this forum because last I checked, the title of this message board says "Matthawkins.co.uk Crazy, amateur filmmaking....." not "Matthawkins.co.uk Crazy, amateur filmmaking and debating issues that aren't related to filmmaking posts"

I already googled links for you and posted them so you can raise all the issues and "feelings" you want about guns in America.

The point is, critique the video.

Example:

I just watched the video and I must say that there's no real story to it. Its just a video about 2 guys shooting at each other and their aiming was really bad. Also that muzzle flash towards the end of the clip doesn't look good. The sound I guess was ok. You need to color grade the footage.

Thats called constructive criticzm aaron. Notice its simple and effective and not hard to do.

This isn't:

so let me get this straight... you get a bunch of REAL guns load them with blanks and fire them off at each other? Don't you american kids ever get laid? what the hell is with this fixation on guns?

seriously if its so f*** cool to have a gun in america i hope you really get shot and find out how easy it is to kill someone with a gun. when almost every american owns at least one gun and in some states CHILDREN own guns you start to wonder who the real terrorists are. Especially when one kid can take out a few kids at school and make headlines world wide...

Juxtapose every war photo youv seen with am arabian kid with an AK47 to the amount of kids your age with guns or acess to guns through the permission of guardians.

pathetic what if one of the blanks werent so blank. You could have died. Put THAT on google video. cooooooool. and if you think it doesnt happen tell it to the crow.

i seriously hope noone protests to what im saying because i mean even in a professional film theres still the strictest of safety rules when guns are on set... and i dont care what you say you still had fun shooting at your best buddy.

this is like giving a baby a bottle of aspirin. theres a difference between a kid with a toy gun and a kid with a real gun and blanks.

or this:

stupidity-fueled huh? Is it stupid to be concerned how realistic the violence has to get for it to be fun anymore? buy some paintball guns you moron. So lets take a look at my stupidity -fueled rant.

The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000. Thats 80 million. The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1,500. Thats accidental, not intended.
In a single year, 3,012 children and teens were killed by gunfire in the United States, according to the latest national data released in 2002. That is one child every three hours; eight children every day; and more than 50 children every week. And every year, at least 4 to 5 times as many kids and teens suffer from non-fatal firearm injuries. (Children's Defense Fund and National Center for Health Statistics)

American children are more at risk from firearms than the children of any other industrialized nation. In one year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada, and 5,285 in the United States. (Centers for Disease Control). # Between 1994 and 1999, there were 220 school associated violent events resulting in 253 deaths - - 74.5% of these involved firearms. Handguns caused almost 60% of these deaths. (Journal of American Medical Association, December 2001)
# In 1998-99 academic year, 3,523 students were expelled for bringing a firearm to school. This is a decrease from the 5,724 students expelled in 1996-97 for bringing a firearm to school. (U.S. Department of Education, October 2000)
# Nearly 8% of adolescents in urban junior and senior high schools miss at least one day of school each month because they are afraid to attend. (National Mental Health & Education Center for Children & Families, National Association of School Psychologists 1998)
# The National School Boards Association estimates that more than 135,000 guns are brought into U.S. schools each day. (NSBA, 1993)

The fact that a nation like yours will try to eliminate things that are unacceptable like the war on drugs or terrorism or even obesity for f*** sake. But because some guy in ye olde times says everyone has the right to a gun in your constitution you just keep that one goin huh.

Do you know how many people have died only from pot? None.


Oh and to explain the avatar? I hate guns, theyre stupid. There glamorized in movies and noone bats an eyelid. You juxtapose it next to some blood and people think wow coool!
Im just waiting for someone to see the real symbolism in the picture.

or this report that should have done for school instead of a forum:

more facts to support my stupidity....

Children and Gun Violence

* America is losing too many children to gun violence. Between 1979 and 2001, gunfire killed 90,000 children and teens in America. (Children's Defense Fund and National Center for Health Statistics)
* In one year, more children and teens died from gunfire than from cancer, pneumonia, influenza, asthma, and HIV/AIDS combined. (Children's Defense Fund)
* The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)

America and Gun Violence

* Every day, more than 80 Americans die from gun violence. (Coalition to Stop Gun Violence)
* The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)
* American kids are 16 times more likely to be murdered with a gun, 11 times more likely to commit suicide with a gun, and nine times more likely to die from a firearm accident than children in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control)

Guns in the Wrong Hands

* Americans for Gun Safety produced a 2003 report that reveals that 20 of the nation’s 22 national gun laws are not enforced. According to U.S. Department of Justice data (FY 2000-2002), only 2% of federal gun crimes were actually prosecuted. Eighty-five percent of cases prosecuted relate to street criminals in possession of firearms. Ignored are laws intended to punish illegal gun trafficking, firearm theft, corrupt gun dealers, lying on a criminal background check form, obliterating firearm serial numbers, selling guns to minors and possessing a gun in a school zone. To access The Enforcement Gap: Federal Gun Laws Ignored, visit http://w3.agsfoundation.com/. For a state-by-state chart of gun crimes (FY 2000-2002), click here.
*
Studies show that 1 percent of gun stores sell the weapons traced to 57 percent of gun crimes. According to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF), the dealer that armed the DC area sniper is among this small group of problem gun dealers that "supply the suppliers" who funnel guns to the nation's criminals. (Between 1997 and 2001, guns sold by this dealer were involved in 52 crimes, including homicides, kidnappings and assaults. Still open today, it also can't account for 238 guns or say whether they were stolen, lost or sold, or if their buyers underwent felony-background checks.) As a result, these few gun dealers have a vastly disproportionate impact on public safety. The ATF can recognize such dealers based on: (1) guns stolen from inventory; (2) missing federal sales records, needed by police to solve crimes; (3) having 10 weapons a year traced to crimes; (4) frequently selling multiple guns to individual buyers; and (5) short times between gun sales and their involvement in crimes. Yet ATF enforcement is weak due to a lack of Congressional support and resources. For more details, click here.
* Terrorists have purchased firearms at gun shows, where unlicensed sellers are not currently required to conduct background checks or to ask for identification. According to the Middle East Intelligence Report, for example, a Hezbollah member was arrested in November 2000, after a nine-month investigation by the FBI's counter-terrorism unit. Ali Boumelhem was later convicted on seven counts of weapons charges and conspiracy to ship weapons and ammunition to Lebanon. Federal agents had observed Boumelhem, a resident of Detroit and Beirut, travel to Michigan gun shows and buy gun parts and ammunition for shipment overseas. Boumelhem was prohibited from legally purchasing guns as gun stores because he was a convicted felon. Additional cases involve a Pakistani national with an expired (1988) student visa; a Lebanese native and Hamas member with numerous felony convictions; and a supporter of the Irish Republican Army. (USA Today, Wednesday, November 28, 2001 Americans for Gun Safety)

* According to Americans for Gun Safety (December 2002), gun theft is most likely in states without laws requiring safe storage of firearms in the home and where there are large numbers of gun owners and relatively high crime rates. Based on FBI data, nearly 1.7 million guns have been reported stolen in the past ten years, and only 40% of those were recovered. The missing guns, over 80% of which are taken from homes or cars, most likely fuel the black market for criminals. NEA, AGS and the National Rifle Association advocate for safe storage. To access "Stolen Guns: Arming the Enemy" visit www.agsfoundation.com.

* The American Medical Association reports that between 36% and 50% of male eleventh graders believe that they could easily get a gun if they wanted one.

* In 1998-99 academic year, 3,523 students were expelled for bringing a firearm to school. This is a decrease from the 5,724 students expelled in 1996-97 for bringing a firearm to school. (U.S. Department of Education, October 2000)

* According to a report by the Joshephson Institute of Ethics (2000 Report Card: Report #1), 60% of high school and 31% of middle school boys said they could get a gun if they wanted to (April, 2001).

Goto school and learn the facts before calling someone stupid.... Try and do things right and broaden your thinking instead of keeping your closed minded guns are okay redneck attitude.

It started out as a rant about SgtPadrino using blank firing guns then it went into a debate on Americans with guns and nowits gone to a debate about the N-word.

Point is: You are raising issues on the wrong forum pal. This section is "Members Films" not "Members Films and debate issues."

[Jperson]

Yah, i have to say I agree with a lot Aaron has said (not neccessarily all of it but most) but I agree that this isn't the forum.

My forum has got a section for this though Except we've got very small numbers at the mo.

[aaronv2]

well its awesome to spew back everything ive said... the fact is. I voiced my opinion people got angry and i had to justify myself... sure its a filmmaking forum but do you call this clip a film? would you go and see a film that had no dialogue and constant gun battle? wait dont answer that. lol.

anyway you say this is a film making forum and it should be about films and blah blah but you got to understand the point of good films. They raise issues like this all the time to get responses like this from their audience. You can't just sit there and accept the world for what it is and film making, its whole point is to convey a story with issues, and morals and ideologies contravercial or not.

Get your proud head out of the sky its not attacking you personally im just justifying my side... if its anyones fault for this turning into such a big thing its the people that were offended by what i said and instead of voicing their side, just resorted to argument and childish name calling... so maybe we need a philosiphy section in this forum.

God knows it might actually inspire some thaught and imagination... wouldn't that be sweet?

[rep22]

...its not attacking you personally im just justifying my side...

I think that's great you're justifying your side Aaron, but just try not to do it in such a violent way. I personally don't have any problem with you, or any other member of the forum. What I want to say is just, you have a tendency to express your opinions in ways that aren't so constructive. Maybe it's just your perspective, I don't know. But just try to express yourself more in general, and don't make things appear hostile.

You said something about, "..like big people.." Well, if you want to be the bigger person, don't initiate the battles with the responsive posts you do. I'm only saying this out of respect for the members, and out of my intolerability of all the chaos and hostility that can be found on this forum. And for the others, if Aaron attempts to be more constructive with his responses, be more open to him. Somewhere in his posts he's giving good advice, allow yourselves to see it, after he has made it come across in a better manner. Thanks.

[Jperson]

I agree totally with rep22...lol see it's east to agree to anything...lol. Waffles. But I totally agree with rep22 Too many smilies, I think I should lay off them, and since I have nothing constructive to say I better go.

[Grant]

Guys keep politics out of this thread! his is not a social debate thread.

[angusware]

http://www.chrisjordan.com/current_set2 ... XXX_09NNN/

some of there are amazing, but one about guns is down the page a bit.

[rhys]

Umm.... this forum is completely stuffed.
Guns are bad when used to hurt other people. Racism is bad, it starts all the damn wars.
Your acting like a child, grow up, its a film about cap guns.

[MasterMike]

Good lord. What an utterly pointless debate that has just about nothing to do with the OP's film.

... which is cool in the fact that there was brass ejection and smoke, I'd have added some more cinematic muzzle flashes myself, but that's just my preference. It didn't really have much plot, but sometimes you just want to have some fun and not worry too much about every aspect of film-making