shell ejection

crb · Post by **crb** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 11:09 pm

Insterested in people's takes on the best way to make a shell ejection look for when people fire bullets out of their guns.

2nd_Recon · Post by **2nd_Recon** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:55 am

if you know about a 3d program, I'd recomend building shell casings with that. If not, try the way Matt posted at the bottom of this page

crb · Post by **crb** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:53 am

I am buying a blank firing gun from a site on the web. I don't remember off hand the name. But it's a .45. I was going to fire off a few shots for this close shot in the film. It recoils and also ejects the shell so I thought it was important to use something that was the most realistic since because it is a close up shot in the film in slow motion and is also the first shot in the film where you see a gun go off. all the bullet hits off the guys in the scene are physical effects. I thought it would set a good tone.
I was thinking that if I have the gun anways, I should film it with a green screen in the background. Then take the clips and put them in with some of the other guns. I was told that mp5's fire off the same size bullets as the .45. If that is true, then I could impose the clips in with the mp5 shots.

maj_barnes · Post by **maj_barnes** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:56 am

The MP5 fires a 9x19 mm Para round, very different from the .45.

maj_barnes · Post by **maj_barnes** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:57 am

Also, blanks don't give off much of a muzlle flash, so expect some editing!

crb · Post by **crb** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:20 am

what are the size of the shells for the mp5 and where would you buy them. I also had a chance to film a guy fire off a reall AK47 back in Maine but I never heard back from the guy. It would obviously be semi-autio, but I figured there would be a way of changing that in editing.

crb · Post by **crb** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:22 am

I already knew I would have to do that flash in editing! I just was concerned that I wanted a good recoil and shell ejection. I originally found a way to do the recoil with my hand but I still didn't have the shell ejection and i can be really picky about this movie I am working on.

Post by **Matt** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 1:53 pm

Although you could render a shell in a 3D program and animate it coming out the side of the gun most of the time it is ejected so fast you barely get to see what it is. Just eject a black rectangle real fast (1-2 frames) and blur it. When you watch a film you are 'aware' of the shell case but you never get enough time to actually see the shell case.

In Hollow Point I did some recoil on the handguns by extracting a single frame, cutting the slide and moving it back slightly, then rebuilding the missing background using cut and paste. You never really see the recoil but you are aware it looks ok.

2nd_Recon · Post by **2nd_Recon** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:35 pm

Try here for that route. It actually looks really good

maj_barnes · Post by **maj_barnes** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:16 pm

The thing with blanks is, the recoil won't be the same as the real thing, because no projectile is being launched from the weapon, so you will still need to act like you have some recoil. And the 9mm rounds are very easy to find, just look in gun sotres for 9mm Parabellium (plus their real cheap!)

crb · Post by **crb** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:22 pm

I assumed the blank firing guns would have to eject some sort of shell casing. I found ones on maxsell.com There were some .45 that were for sale with blanks for $150 USD.

crb · Post by **crb** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:23 pm

2nd Recon I saved that route and emailed to myself for future info.

UFProductions · Post by **UFProductions** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:17 am

Fancy editing programs (and their price tags) don't agree with me, so I do my shell ejections old school. Get a real bullet shell, and position it against the side of the gun, on the opposite side from the camera, held there with your thumb or forefinger (whichever makes the most sense). When the "shot" goes off squeeze the casing against the gun. Because of it's round shape, the casing will roll out from under your finger and go flying up and away from the gun. This works best with rifles, but will work with most guns if set up properly. Obviously it doesn't work so great with fully automatic guns, or scenes with multiple shots in one continouous take.

crb · Post by **crb** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:17 am

The other idea I had was to put an add in the newspaper looking for someone who owns a real .45 and have them postion it beside the blue screen and fire at a target. Then just capture the shell casings from the blue screen. I wonder in editing if I could replace the .45 shell with that of the mp5 casing so that it is the right size, but also follows the flow of a shell casing going through the air.

NPMAX · Post by **NPMAX** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:41 pm

You could always film the actors feet after showing them shooting cut away really fast to shell casings on the ground. Several Hong Kong action flicks do it this way.

crb · Post by **crb** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:02 pm

I can't just cut away to someone else. It doesn't fit the story, and looks like I am purposefully trying to avoid the effect.

NPMAX · Post by **NPMAX** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:06 pm

I didnt explain what I meant well enough, let me try again say you are filming Actor A shooting at someone and you want to avoid doing several shell ejections use the trick Matt mentioned with ejecting one up with the finger then cut to Actor A's feet with a pile of casings there and have them continue to drop near the the feet. It will give the look that many shots were fired and save plenty of time in post.

2nd_Recon · Post by **2nd_Recon** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:46 pm

He just stands there with a handfull of shell casings and sifts through them like they were very large grains of sand. Then you just put in a load of gunfire sound effects in post

Post by **Matt** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 8:54 pm

In Hollow Point we have a shot where a few shell cases bounce on the floor at the actors feet. They were real shell cases as well

Originally we were going to CGI the shell cases ejecting but didn't ... basically because it would have taken too much effort!

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:32 am

Hollywood Firearm Lessons 101

I thought my demonstration explained it all quite well!

crb · Post by **crb** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:28 pm

I think I will go with the put an add in the newspaper and find someone with a barretta and pay them some money to fire off a couple rounds with blue screen to the side of them. Then I may be able to use it for multiple stuff.
I do do a shot with the casings landing beside someones feet for a couple different shots. That part is easy.

crb · Post by **crb** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:37 pm

I'm thinking down the road of having someone create a gun which all it does is eject shells when you pull the trigger and shoot out some short of flame so that I have a totally operational sfx gun that doesn't need a pyrotech.

Epsilon · Post by **Epsilon** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 11:08 pm

I don't think a color screen is even necessary, just have them fire the weapon in your movie!

crb · Post by **crb** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:15 pm

Well it is already shot. I made a descion in the middle of a scene to shoot that background to the shot and add the gun firing off in postproduction.

some of my shells I can do the cg way and it will look effective. But the close up of the hand gun is necessary to look very professional. I found this site called replicaweaponry.com that has a barretta that looks like my fake one. But it fires blanks and it says it ejects the shell in a form of blowback. So I think I may go with that idea.

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shell ejection

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