Michael Jackson

All aspects of low budget special effects.

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Ivan Speilberg
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Michael Jackson

Post by Ivan Speilberg »

Does anybody know how the did the part in the video "Moon Walker"(a.k.a. Smooth Criminal) when they are dancing in the bar and then the dancers and MJ leaned forward and where still in their feet????

How the did dad w/o falling forward? I know this may sound silly, veeeeeery silly and stupid, but I think they used something else than wires. WHY??.....

I wave seen a video I have of his "Dangerous World Tour" (from HBO) and he did it LIVE. After a breack, he performed 5-6 songs in a row w/o leaving the stage. The last one was Smooth Criminal. They where dancing all over the HUGE stage, then they stepped on the center and performed the trick (the leaning forward w/o falling). Before and after this, nobody touched MJ to place or remove the possible wires he had on. He started dancing all over the HUGE stage again w/o thangling (if he had wires)

Magic is my first hobby and I know A LOT about magic, MISDIRECTION and stage illusions but I can't figure out how they did this. I discovered the trick of how they make him and his casket "dissapear" IN MID AIR in the Triller part , but I can't tell where the f***ing wires were in Smooth Criminal ( If he had them).

The ceiling was WAAAAAYYYY up and any wires, even if they were black, would have been seen by the TV cameras because the stage was a bit back-lighted.

WHERE IS THE TRICK!!!!!!!!???????
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Post by death to traitors »

i remember seeing a mj doc a few years back or maybe it was just a best music video show or something but on it they said that they actually did that. now they could be full of sh*t but mj does dance and quite well and im sure he has a great since of balance and could do it
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Post by Mushiman »

No, i saw the making of years ago. They used wire attached to the backs of everyone who leand forwards.

I love the dogs, they used gum sheilds on the dogs so they were constantly snarling & showing their teeth!! :cool:
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Post by Ivan Speilberg »

Sorry "Death to Traitors":), but there is no posible way in earth he can do that w/o help from magic or FX. Im a pro dancer and there is no way in hell that me or my buddies can do that!!!!!!

HE LEANED MORE THAN 55 degrees FORWARD!!!!!!! Even my gymnasts friends can't do that, and they are veeeery good at their stuff. There is no way that a human can lean forward this far w/o falling. Even my physics PROFESOR couldn't explain it !!!!!

I think he had some reinforced shoes attached to some snow skees!?!? (Silly me... he did that live on stage and he had no reinforced shoes or skees on!!!):(

[Edited on 25-11-2003 by Ivan Speilberg]
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Post by Ivan Speilberg »

How can they have wire attached to their backs and dance the five previous numbers LIVE w/o someone discovering or noticing the f***ing wires!!!!!!

Also, the ceiling was about 30 fts. above their heads. Everyone would have noticed the cables then, even the TV cameras!!!!
They shurely used wires on the video, DUHHHH!!! but HOW THEY DID IT LIVE!! :(
in front of thousands of people and about
42 HIGH QUALITY cameras from HBO.????
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Post by insert_coin »

I did magic as a hobby aswell and i find it hard to believe that you did it too since you think a certain way... confused?

Well if you did magic as a hobby you should realise that there is no one way to do something... you keep assuming it is done with wires. have you thaught it is something else than wires?

Everyone thinks they know how a trick is done... if they way they think it is done is disprooved then instead of thinking of another way to do it people get stumped and think its an amazing trick... this is what makes society so easily exploitive. Sad but true. I mean by yourself you can think but in a large group it just takes one histarical person to start a panic.

anyway other possible ways to do this live on stage. A body rig where by a mechanical contaaption is attached to their bodys as they stand on stage the rig is inserted into the stage either at the back of his legs through the bottom of his pants. this is the only other way it could be done... without wires there has to be a rig that can be secured to the floor. another possibility is really heavy shoes haha but then you have to eliminate the rediculous.
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Post by death to traitors »

now they could be full of sh*t
Sorry "Death to Traitors
no need to apologize ivan i already coverd my bases. but i did see that on vh1 i should try to find it on kazza or something
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Post by Ivan Speilberg »

Hey Insert_Coin, that's a big possibility.

In the video, you can't see their feet for a short moment, maybee there was the trick, a body rig coming from below the stage and trough their pant's leg. GOOD IDEA FELLA!!! (A similar rig is used to levitate people from the point of a still sword or chair)

I say "certain way" in my post because many magicians have different methods of performing tricks. For example, when Lance Burton dissapears someone inside a box, he uses a black panel against a black background to mask-out when the performer/assistant falls from the box ,trough a trap door, and gets away from the stage trough annother trap door in the stage's floor. ( If you know a lot about magic, you can spot the trap doors in the floor when the camera pans up and out)

Sigfreid and Roy employ a diff. method, comonly used by others: they build their platform's floor with added hidding space painted black. they place a high-shine metal strip in the center or the front side, so that people believe that indeed the platform is the same width as the metal strip. Few people can notice the extra box space (painted in black, duhhh!) that extends like 5 or 6 inches above and below the metal stip. That's enought space for someone to hide in (a.k.a. dissapear )

I have about 47 boocks and videos about magic and stage illusions. I DO know a lot of magic :P
If you don' t believe me deal with it!!:P:D;)

DONT WASTE YOUR TIME JUDGING OTHERS , THAT'S WRONG!!!! ;)
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Post by poonhead »

I've never seen this live performance, but in the video I'm pretty sure they used a tilting set much the same way Kubrick used a spinning room in 2001.
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Post by insert_coin »

im not doubting you dont have alot of books... im doubting when you say you know alot about magic.

you obviously don't "know" alot because you dont think like a magician.

because you have alot of books doesnt make me believe in your skill you have to show me by letting me see your skill not how many books you have. have you read them all? I mean just because a lawer sits in front of a wall of books doesnt make him smart but you see all lawers do it. funny isnt it?

p.s giving away magic secrets is breaking one of the rules of magic... look in the appendix they should all be there.

EDIT: If you sense a little hostility here congrats... i dont take too kindly to remarks like "Deal with it" so above is just supporting my "judgement" that is all.

[Edited on 25-11-2003 by insert_coin]
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Post by Ivan Speilberg »

Books and knowledge mean nothing if you dont know how to apply the things you learned/read :P And yes, I have read them all (all my 47+ books), and I understant and apply the concepts in them to the things I do.

I dont' have to prove you or anyone anything, neither have you to. You just have to stop talking cr** about others.
That's it :P

Quote:" You obviously don't "know" alot because you dont think like a magician."

How do u know how I think???? Do you have magical powers silly boy????
I DO know that giving away magic secrets is breaking the FIRST of the rules of magic, not just one of them, but what the hell do u think this forum is for?

Giving away secrets is to do the things that the "Masked Magician" do, going everywhere and revealing to EVERYONE, not just aspiring magicians, exactly how each and everyone of the best stage illusions that can exist in earth is done.

You can pass your knowledge to other interested in magic, but don't go spoiling tricks to just EVERYONE. If you don't pass
knowledge to others, how will magic survive??? How did you learned your tricks??? By Divine inspiration????

You may bee good in CGI and computers, but I think there are maaaaaany more people that know more stuff about physical effects than you, maaaaaaany more. By your childish behavior and asumtions about other people's knowledge, I can tell that you CAN'T DEAL with the fact that you are NOT the best in everything!!!!!:D:D:P:D:D

P.S. DEAL WHIT IT!!!!!, AND STOP YOUR cr** TALKING;);););):D:D:D;););););)

See.... I can also be hostile:D:D

Quote: -" If you sense a little hostility here congrats..."

DEAL WITH IT POOR CRY BABY..........:)
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Post by Grant »

STOP THIS NOW!!!!!!!!! THE MOD HAS SPOKEN!

We all have different views and experiences and we must respect those.
But we do not want any petty squabbling or abuse here.
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Post by Ornsack »

I'm with Grant, calm thyselves!

[Edited on 25-11-2003 by Ornsack]
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Post by insert_coin »

hey im calm i just don't like when people contradict themselves. makes me feel angry, smart but angry. this guy says he knows magic and can't even apply basic princibles, just makes me wonder thats all. Besides he compliments me on thinking of how to do it then gets hostile. whats with that?

P.S my new avitar R0x0rs!

[Edited on 26-11-2003 by insert_coin]
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Post by Grant »

just calm down and lets all take a deep breath and be constructive
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Post by Austin »

HAHA insert is always hostile...Its just his way of telling us all that he cares :D or doesnt care, for that matter any way... ;)
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Post by insert_coin »

I yell because I care... don't do drugs.
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