OMG - INTEL GOES MAC

Post all your general non-film related PC and Mac stuff here.

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Epsilon
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Post by Epsilon » Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:38 pm

See what I started! :twisted:
kg9491 wrote:So anyway, this is completely off topic, but does anyone know how to get out of this "Junior Member" status and get more stars below my name?
Yes. Keep contributing to the forums and your rank shall rise. But your ranks matters not as much as the quality of your posts. Spam gets pruned over time, so you might as well spend the effort to make your posts worthwhile.

I have no problem with Mac users, but in my limited experiences with Macs, half the time they locked up and gave me continual problems. At least the "blue screen of death" helps you resolve the problem! This is partially why I am so resistant to own a Mac. Kind of ironic, isn't it?

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Post by foxwood » Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:45 pm

From what I have seen (owning a macbook with a new intell prosseser) the only diffrence is that everytime I go home my brother trys to convince me to duel boot OSX and XP or Vista, which kind of defets the purpose of owning a mac. And as for gaming, if you install windows on your mac you can do all the gaming you want. Though OSX gaming is slowly on the rise, I saw a bunch of 2 year old PC games for the Mac at the mac store for 50 bucks a few weeks ago.

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Post by Knightly » Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:46 pm

Machines locking up? How long ago was that? Sounds more like the OS9 and lower days. OSX hardly locks...I've experienced maybe 10 crashes in the past 5 years under OSX (dating back to developer's preview 4).

EA just announced they are moving to simultaneous releases for all of their games and are bringing some of their bigger games up to speed. C&C3, BF2142, sports games. With the move to intel, the development time has reduced for cross-platforming these games to within a profitable window. This is the piece that has been missing in the past, I'm glad it's fixed. Soon, we'll have not only the coolest games on-time, but even some of the crappy ones that make up the "we have more games" arguments ;)
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Post by Ornsack » Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:59 pm

Aren't there Mac Vs PC rules on this forum, or was that just something Camclub came up with? :)

Either way, it's getting old!

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Post by maj_barnes » Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:06 pm

My washing machine has a spin cycle.

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Post by Knightly » Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:03 am

Sorry, just working at informing folks with questions or misconceptions. Gladly stop anytime. Not a big deal to me. Of course, you don't necessarily have to read it either ;)
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Post by kene555 » Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:18 am

OK OK OK....

lets try to keep this an informative thread, with opinions on why ya love it or hate it.

maj_barnes, If you wanna make a thread bashing macs, I am sure it will get plenty of visits.

(by the way, loved those links :D)

So anyways. My problem with the mac is the mouse. Why is there no right click. Why is it control-click. Yes, I know that they have made a new mouse with right-click, but why make on without it in the first place?!

The iMac at school is brandnew. we have 30 of them in the art department. Supposedly Mac is great for movies, with its iMovie HD and iDVD. Then why does the DVD burner have a max speed of 2x? One would think that mac would make a burner that can get the job done quickly.

Another thing I'm wondering about is the compatibility. On a PC, Premiere captures video as an avi file, which is easily transferred back and forth between PC and mac. Great for when I want to work on projects at home and at school. But when mac captures, it uses some sort of quicktime dv format that is not acceptable to my pc editing programs. I had to import it into After Effects (which thankfully accepted it) and export as one huuuuuggggeeee file.

I honestly want to know why this is.

And mac users, tell us what is quirky about pc, too.
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Post by maj_barnes » Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:16 am

maj_barnes, If you wanna make a thread bashing macs, I am sure it will get plenty of visits.
Where did I ever bash Macs? I may bash whiny pompous Mac users, but never the computer itself (I don't care for them though). It's a damn computer and getting into arguments over which piece of s*** is better is about as interesting as getting into one about which refrigerator is better. To put it simply, it's gay.

I mean, I can whole heartily understand if you were arguing about left versus right handed masturbation, but come on: f***ing computers? Just continue to use the one you use: it's not like someone else's opinion is monopolizing your equipment usage.

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Post by Zac » Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:01 am

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Post by kene555 » Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:45 pm

Image
lol.

whoops maj, didn't mean you bashing the mac, just the ads for mac and its users.
:D
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Post by Knightly » Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:07 pm

wow...too bad I'm old and nerdy ;) Here are my issues...they're all little things. Interfaces between programs are inconsistant. Apple is now guilty of this as well with shake and color, but they are targeting a specific audience who are accustomed to these painful interfaces.

To select a line of text on the mac...I triple click, or I click at the beginning of the selection and drag one line up or down to select in that direction...even if there's not a line following or preceding the text...simple, small hand movements rather than pain inducing treks across the vast expanses of the mouse pad (when you're used to one, the other feels extreme).

When Typing an URL, I type apple and return will auto complete the address as www.apple.com, When I type apple/quicktime and hit return, it auto completes to www.apple.com/quicktime (I'm aware of the ctrl-return thing...but it should be the default behavior rather than an exception).

applescript which allows you to control just about every application on your machine and tie them together (and now automator which allows you to drag functional blocks and connect them to write code)...this is the way the TV Guide is regionalized, BTW. Visual basic is close, but doesn't go as deep into the system as AS does.

shutdown is in the start menu...it's a semantic problem, not a functional one.

My problem with them is really the "death of a thousand papercuts". There's so many little things that seem like they were added as features without the thought ever occuring that regular people would ever have to actually use them. The interface is just the elements that we used to type in (in the DOS world) without having to type in the initial command. The mac was built from the ground up to hide these functions from the user. As an old school computer geek, this is the promise of the original concept of computing. It was supposed to get out of the way and let you work. To me, the PC seems like more of something you work on rather than with.

As a professional computer technician for the past decade...the troubleshooting workflow for the Macintosh is much more straight forward due to apple having complete control over both hardware and OS. No gazillions of DLL's to sort through, no monolithic registry to go corrupt and bring the computer to its knees...hardly ever an OS reinstall (which is something akin to changing out the engine of your car to replace the bad sparkplug)...which is 9 times out of 10 just to replace the registry...so back up a clean install of your registry every morning and keep the last 20 or so of them...when it starts going wonky, you can just re-import the last working one and your life will generally go back to happy...I would also back up before you install new HW/SW. See, I know windows, I just don't do them ;)

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Post by El Brenty » Sun Jun 24, 2007 9:40 pm

Ornsack wrote:Aren't there Mac Vs PC rules on this forum, or was that just something Camclub came up with? :)

Either way, it's getting old!
You're right, it was something I just came up with, because I couldn't stand losing arguements against PCs. I still won't go to Macs though. I'm happy with my PCs, and it'll be a while before I need any new equipment. From what I can see, you pay a premium for the Apple brand, and for programming and web design, if you put pc and mac together, they'll both do the job equally well, so I'd rather build my own, that means PC.

From my own experience of using macs at university, I still prefer PCs, and with graphics software, I can get things done faster, simply because you can right-click for context-sensitive help, rather than having to wade through loads of menus to find the option you need - Because your mouse only has 1 button! Also, I couldn't do without my scroll button.

Next equipment purchase will hopefully be next year when I plan to open up an office in Mexico. Probably looking at about halfa dozen computers, web server, and possibly a dedicated SDSL line for some serious VPN. I have 4 computers here in England, but 3 of them are for the balloon company - None are Macs!
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Post by Knightly » Mon Jun 25, 2007 1:51 am

My mice all have 2 buttons and have for the past 10 years. I don't use the standard apple mouse, I spent $10 on a crappy USB one...works like a champ. And I get all the same contextual menus you do, I have since OS 8.6 10ish years ago. I couldn't do with out my scroll button...I even carry around a mouse for my laptop.

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Post by Zac » Mon Jun 25, 2007 7:56 am

heres a clearly older one.
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Post by Knightly » Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:43 pm

99% of the population has benefitted from the phone being simple to operate... .01% of the population could build their own... The computer's promis in the 70's and 80's was that it would change the world for the better. 90% of the population is on a PC and don't have the foggiest clue how to operate it correctly. They got it right with the phone and the toaster and the macintosh. Cletus is benefitting from a great interface ;) Maybe now he can get past his 3rd grade education brought upon by the gov't's unwillingness to spend money on education. Say it with me: "Every Child Left Behind"

To find out how I really feel...just re-read the last post ;)
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Post by kene555 » Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:47 pm

Couldn't resist...
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I can't believe the response to this...on the news last night the mayor of Philadelphia abandoned his job to wait in line for one. :D
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Post by Jperson » Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:54 pm

I the iPhone rocks. Apple leads the way, followed by Microsoft. Gates is left to pick up or copy any un-copyrighted crumbs left on the floor... HOnestly that's how it is, looks....

Wdigets > Now there's > Gadgets from Microsoft
Aqua > Now there's > Aero from Microfost
Apple Chess > Now there's > Microsoft Chess
Spotlight > Now there's > Microsoft search thing
iPod > Now there's > the Zune
iMove > Now there's > Windows Movie Maker
iPhoto > Now there's > Some crappy iPhoto on the PC from Microsoft
Parental Controls > Now there's > Crappy windows ones.

And the list goes on...(believe me there are loads more!). Vista is pathetic... Can't Microsoft think of anything original.

By the way, Apple invented the mouse, don't forget that, ye' ungrateful maggots!

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TaIUkwPybtM"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TaIUkwPybtM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/qHO8l-Bd1O4"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qHO8l-Bd1O4" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
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Post by El Brenty » Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:26 pm

Jperson wrote:By the way, Apple invented the mouse, don't forget that, ye' ungrateful maggots!
:p'n'l: Get your facts right before embarassing yourself further: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_mouse - Can't you see what they are doing? They are trying to trick people into buying their systems through lies.

At the end of the day, if Apple Macs were so good, people wouldn't use anything else. I guess one's choice of computer is similar to religion. Sometimes you are indoctrinated into a particular way of thinking.

I know from a business point of view, to replace my existing PCs with apples would be a complete waste of money. I have perfectly good PCs, and perfectly good software. I also can't justify an investment into apple for new equipment either.

Each to their own.
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Post by Knightly » Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:49 am

Yeah, let's get these facts straight, I'll summarize for you (my additions in bold):
Jperson wrote: Widgets > Now there's > Gadgets from Microsoft
originally widgets from konfabulator

Aqua > Now there's > Aero from Microsoft
based around the nextstep interface from next computer, steve job's failed interim computer until he got then apple CEO gil amelio to buy the company over the BeOS.

Apple Chess > Now there's > Microsoft Chess
also from Next

Spotlight > Now there's > Microsoft search thing
based around the search tech from Next

iPod > Now there's > the Zune
apple perfecting existing product groups

iMove > Now there's > Windows Movie Maker
keygrip, purchased from macromedia, was the basis for this and final cut

iPhoto > Now there's > Some crappy iPhoto on the PC from Microsoft
Don't know the origin of this one, could've been apple dev'd it all on their own

Parental Controls > Now there's > Crappy windows ones.
apple's parental controls are kinda labor intensive, but not terrible

And the list goes on...(believe me there are loads more!). Vista is pathetic... Can't Microsoft think of anything original.
The whole window/icon schema was invented at Xerox PARC before apple tried it out on the last version of the "Apple X" series of machines, the apple III (lisa). The macintosh was a break from the original philosophy of computing which was to keep the architecture open...Wozniak even didn't like the idea of making a closed system (the apple and apple contained component level schematics so users could alter and repair their own machines with a soldering iron)

By the way, Apple invented the mouse, don't forget that, ye' ungrateful maggots!
xerox's Palo Alto Research Center invented the mouse, apple made it publically available without the consent of Xerox and (I believe) in violation of NDA's signed before the tour.
Bill Gates is quoted as saying "I want that" while pointing at a test mac on his desk he had for testing microsoft works (one of the first mac applications -mac only at the time as MS-DOS wouldn't support the document/interface model it used). Windows 1.0 came out shortly after touting a window/icon based interface driven by a mouse...which was shortly before referred to as a toy interface by all of the PC using folks at the time.

And yet, apple was first to market as a "machine + OS" business model before anyone else and is currently the only PC manufacturer who boasts their own OS which is tailored specifically to their hardware as they make the OS as well...Plus software. Because they make the whole package and don't allow licenses, they can't be targeted for the interoperability lawsuits that all MS is with their OS. Apple's business model allows them to have a monopoly over all legal installs of their software. 100% of the legitimate users of OSX own apple hardware. It will run on a PC, but isn't a legal install as it violates the usage of apple's proprietary bios system Used to be a chip, now in software through open firmware on PPC and something else on the intel platform.

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Post by Jperson » Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:11 pm

Meh, Windows was copied from Apple in the first place. (Oh God! Someone's gonna get me wrong on that one as well...) :D
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Post by Knightly » Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:40 pm

nope...windows was copied from apple in the first place...my point was that apple copied it too...but they made it better than what I've seen of the old parc application of the tech and then released it to the public.
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Post by Ornsack » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:58 am

CamClub wrote:
Jperson wrote:By the way, Apple invented the mouse, don't forget that, ye' ungrateful maggots!
:p'n'l: Get your facts right before embarassing yourself further: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_mouse - Can't you see what they are doing? They are trying to trick people into buying their systems through lies.

At the end of the day, if Apple Macs were so good, people wouldn't use anything else. I guess one's choice of computer is similar to religion. Sometimes you are indoctrinated into a particular way of thinking.

I know from a business point of view, to replace my existing PCs with apples would be a complete waste of money. I have perfectly good PCs, and perfectly good software. I also can't justify an investment into apple for new equipment either.

Each to their own.
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Post by Knightly » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:30 am

Yeah, I've spent so much fixing up my old busted chevy, that I could've afforded two BMW's by now...can't turn back now... ;)
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Post by foxwood » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:30 am

All invotions are in essance stolen from something, and lets be honist most the computer stuff was "barrowed" from a smaller company that we will never hear of or a big company that got out of computers because of it. And in the end you know OSX Vista they only work as well as the person behind the keyboard.

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Post by Epsilon » Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:50 pm

Apple was hardly the innovator in the computer world. They copied just about everything. Read yer history! Nobody gives Xerox any credit these days...

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